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  #1  
Old 03-01-2007, 07:36 PM
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Default Advantages?

Can anyone please tell me the real advantages you have from stupid fights about this and that in vp/vpm/table building/flipper settings, ... ?

Usually the more you get into the fights the more you lose respect.

What's your impulse?

Sure I do understand different views. But what's the reason to change different views into childish or unsocial fights?

You think you provide anything that is indispensable to life? No, it's only about pinball. Just about a toy. A game!

All I can think of is you don't have anything better to do else!

Change your mind and don't feel that important as you seem to do.

It's all about pinball, a hobby, a game , a toy. Nothing else!
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  #2  
Old 03-01-2007, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: Advantages?

Fuck yogi. Can't you understand a simple concept?

It's just a fucking game, like you said but it has many contributers, and PacDude wants to take credit for what I did, Read the Thread yogi, he said it himself. And had credit in the script, and made excuses why it should stay, and then took it out. It was a function useful to VPM emulation yogi. Important? Beyond this community? GOOD GOD NO yogi, OK? NO!, but it does belong inside the community, and it has not got outside of it. DON"T PANIC.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:44 PM
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Default RE: Advantages?

Let me have control of your work, yogi. Let me have control of your account. Let me have control of your membership. Let me decide if you are allowed to ask that or not. Let me decide if your work can be taken away from everyone and me alone use it. Let me control where your post are put, and for God sake yogi, let me decide if you are right or wrong if we disagree, and take unilateral action against you. Let me lie to you and ask you to shut the fuck up about it. Then Maybe, just maybe, you might understand.
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  #4  
Old 03-02-2007, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: RE: Advantages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockman
Fuck yogi.
That's a nice welcome back to PN! No reason for me to read on any further after just two words. Only you felt addressed by some unknown reason and decided to answer that way you did. Now you can say goodbye in almost the same manner. Have fun!
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  #5  
Old 03-03-2007, 01:07 AM
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Default RE: Re: RE: Advantages?

Go back to VPF then yogi. That would be best for you. Then you can ignore the issue with others that want to ignore the issue. Just remember, you asked.
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  #6  
Old 03-03-2007, 01:55 AM
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Default Re: RE: Advantages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiholzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockman
Fuck yogi.
That's a nice welcome back to PN! No reason for me to read on any further after just two words. Only you felt addressed by some unknown reason and decided to answer that way you did. Now you can say goodbye in almost the same manner. Have fun!
Actually, Shocky wasn't saying, "Fuck Yogi" like you're thinking. He was saying, "gosh darn it Yogi." I'm serious here as this is a common use of the word "fuck" in the USA. You just have to read everything to understand what he meant. It's like saying, "Fuck man, you got to be shitting me" This means, "Ah man, you can't be serious."
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  #7  
Old 03-03-2007, 02:06 AM
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Default RE: Re: RE: Advantages?

Will someone please ban this stupid fucker once and for all already. These forums are nothing but Pure 100% unadultered Shock Shit.
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  #8  
Old 03-03-2007, 04:30 AM
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Default Re: RE: Advantages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiholzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockman
Fuck yogi.
That's a nice welcome back to PN! No reason for me to read on any further after just two words. Only you felt addressed by some unknown reason and decided to answer that way you did. Now you can say goodbye in almost the same manner. Have fun!
Actually, Shocky wasn't saying, "Fuck Yogi" like you're thinking. He was saying, "gosh darn it Yogi." I'm serious here as this is a common use of the word "fuck" in the USA. You just have to read everything to understand what he meant. It's like saying, "Fuck man, you got to be shitting me" This means, "Ah man, you can't be serious."
What was grammatically needed was a comma. As an example:
"Fuck, Electroshockman, you sure are a monomaniacal nutjob."
The comma makes it exclamatory. Sans the comma, the sentence goes into verb territory as an action that should be performed, as in this example:
"Fuck Electroshockman. Fuck him up the ass."
And, after the last year, I truly believe that this is an action that should be performed, preferably by something equine... a horse, maybe a donkey.
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  #9  
Old 03-03-2007, 10:16 AM
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Default

This isn't direktly referring to Shockman! It's general.

In some modification it is part of my job to fight and to become attacked (not physical). I get paid for and that's ok. But I don't want to make that to the main content of my life. In closing time I want to relax. It seems pinball forums aren't the right places to do that with success. Either you need to read about or somehow you become involded yourself. It's nearly impossible to fully keep out of that. No choice, because you don't know the content of the next post/thread. Yes, sometimes it's really one's own fault, but that are mischances.

It's the same elsewhere, everywhere. People seem to search for fights. If there's no reason they search for or provoke any or they take any look, behavior, movement, ... as reason.

All I like to know is what's peoples impulse to always act that way. What's the advantage? Why can't people overlook a fault intentionally? Why can't they forgive? Or why can't or don't people want to act friendly and look on the bright side?

Is it the same silly advantage people think they have from buying a special offer at a place miles and hours away which costs petrol, time and nerves and then is less advantageous in the end? Even intelligent people refuse to realise and to admit.

@Shockman:

You started the fight about who suggested to add the ball thru flipper fix to the core.vbs. The fight wasn't about who discovered the fix, but just about who made the suggestion to add it to the core.vbs. It could have been me or anyone else and then maybe my or anyone's else name would be written in the core.vbs or not. Who would care about ever? Even if more than only a very few people ever opened that file in an editor. Where is the advantage if you can read your name there because you made the suggestion?

It wasn't about one's credits. You made/changed that to a problem about one's credits. Advantage?

Even if it was about credits, where's the advantage?

..., and so on, long story about cause and effect.

Regardless of right or wrong in changing the core.vbs in 3.24 you can't blame anyone else as stealer and liar when you are the cause for the effect. You started the fight from nothing without any reason in the beginning, provoked backlashs and in the end a change in the core.vbs using bad words over weeks or months all the time only because you don't begrudge the 'black under the fingernails' to someone else who you don't like or because of any other hidden advantage only you can see and you continue to refuse to realise that there is less advantage. And you wonder that you are considered as unconvincible troublemaker?
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  #10  
Old 03-03-2007, 10:24 AM
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Default RE: Re: RE: Advantages?

Fuck Ruby, you're grammatically correct, but you have to ascertain what Shockman writes after the, "Fuck Yogi." to fully comprehend his intentions. He was speaking directly to Yogi in the first person tense, which would then require a "you" inserted into the "Fuck Yogi" transforming it into "Fuck you, Yogi" to be truly grammatically correct if his intention was indeed to slander Yogi, which I believe wasn't his intention in the first place. LOL, this is a silly place.... Isn't it? I bet this post will translate poorly for Yogi
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  #11  
Old 03-03-2007, 11:18 AM
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Default RE: Re: RE: Advantages?

Ruby is right. There should have been a comma.
I have proved that I did not ask to have credit in the core. I said that PacDude should not be credited in that section, after saying what he did in those quotes.
Someone as vain as PacDude or as kind as yogi can't change that. They could only refrain from asking to hear about the reason.
When someone lies about you, and to you and steals from you, are they going to hear about it? If you don't want to read about settings and numbers and things like that then it should have been enough for you that I came up with a way to fix the ball through the flipper problem, shared it as soon as I tested it, and entered into discussion with Destruk about the core, on the first day.
If you believe PacDude that he fixed it, then fine. But it's not fixed. It is not this hard to understand, and you have got to understand that if everyone did believe him but me, that would not make me wrong, it would make everyone else wrong.
If this was a simple dispute about whether the core should contain the ball through the flipper fix then everyone would be on my side. We have been there, it was so. But it's not. To agree with me at this point, you have to risk pissing someone off that makes a lot of tables. Now what difference that makes about what is right or wrong, I don't know, but it seems like a neo religion to me. Can't you see that you can not disagree about the fact that PacDude had nothing to do with the fix, Tried to take credit early on, and should have left it in the core for everyone to use, not just him, and disagree with him if he tells you not only that it's OK to fuck babies, (no comma) but indeed that you must fuck babies. You are not deciding if someone is right or wrong here, you are deciding if someone could do any wrong at all. PacDudes words speak for him. He said he put the code into the script. Did he believe that? Do you believe it? because that was the point in saying it, to have you believe something he knows is not true.
People give up too much when they follow a man like that and call him Saviour. Last time I have read about it their children was let to burn to death, and another group killed themselves to hitch a ride on a comet. You are giving up truth as well, and helping him make it so you get more tables than you would, and all it costs is that you follow him, and know him. If you don't know you can't follow. You have to use code to get rid of the bttf now, and he will teach you how. just kneel before him and ask. If you don't come to him you can't be saved.
In for a penny, in for a pound. "No one enters the realm of no bttf but by me", he will say and it's true. Those that don't care to know him are not going to know the way.
You gave up my contribution, and you accepted that thousands and thousands of tables that are out there are not going to work with this core. You trade that fact for the belief that you will get another new table.
If you can't get a hold of the divine PacDude, just ask one of his Deciples, TMFP will assure that his word is law, and 'Oz will teach you the way to make your tables have no balls through the flippers, and assure only those worthy will have it.
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  #12  
Old 03-03-2007, 11:55 AM
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Default RE: Re: RE: Advantages?

I see a new sport on here. It's called Shock-Pong. It's like Ping-Pong except instead of hitting a ball back and forth, you hit "Fuck You" comments back and forth!

Shockman: Fuck you so-and-so!
So-and-so: No! Fuck You!
Shockman: No! Fuck You!
So-and-so: No! Fuck You!
Shockman: No! Fuck You!
So-and-so: No! Fuck You!
Shockman: No! Fuck You!
So-and-so: No! Fuck You!
Shockman: No! Fuck You!
So-and-so: No! Fuck You!
Shockman: No! Fuck You!
So-and-so: No! Fuck You!
Shockman: No! Fuck You!
So-and-so: No! Fuck You!
Shockman: No! Fuck You!
So-and-so: No! Fuck You!
Shockman: No! Fuck You!
So-and-so: No! Fuck You!
Shockman: No! Fuck You!
So-and-so: No! Fuck You!
Shockman: No! Fuck You!

...
...
And so on for all time....

You know tic-tac-toe is fun for awhile too until you realize playing against any even semi-competant player will always result in a tie. In Shock-Pong, it's clear there is a loser to all logical people (Shockman always loses because he never has an argument in his rants), but seeing as he is totally 100% oblivious to that fact, the insults fly back and forth anyway and they are the only relevant part of the conversation because it's the ONLY part Shockman can comprehend.
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  #13  
Old 03-03-2007, 12:35 PM
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Default RE: Re: RE: Advantages?

Prove it!
Explain your posts that say you put the code into the core. And that you came up with .137 as a speed that would defeat the problem.

Then explain what you meant when you said I asked for the code to be taken out of the core, And explain why you don't care if that breaks anyone else's tables, as far as the problem.
I explained what happened, who was involved, and why. I said the fix was put into the core so everyone would be able to benefit from it, (For the good of the community). If you have better arguments than that, what are you waiting for?
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  #14  
Old 03-03-2007, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: Re: RE: Advantages?

I'm sorry yogi. I did not mean that as you thought I did.
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  #15  
Old 03-03-2007, 01:14 PM
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Comma or not and whatever intension, it's ok.

Originally I wanted to know if you have fun to fight about any little fart, to make a mountain out of a molehill and what advantage you think to see in that. Not only in forums or in the web, but in all occasion in life. Are you ever happy about anything?

This thread has turned into bttf and other. What surprise!.

I refuse to understand what the problem was in 3.12-3.23, Shockman. Wasn't it ok for years? Suddenly you came up with problems in this phrase: on suggestion from PacDude. Why? It's not more than as I would reply in a help request at VPF about maybe to try to reinstall Windows Scripting 5.6 and not giving credit to everyone else who posted about the same issue before. I don't care about who originally found out that possible fix and I don't post thanks to xy, M$, Williams and my mother. It's not Oscar award! I just report about a possible fix and I suggest to try that. PacDude isn't credited by that phrase. Only thanks of your laughable problem with that phrase the core.vbs now is changed in the last version. In my opinion the file change is fully understandable, but I don't say it's right or wrong, because that's a completely different question. Nobody is forced to use always the newest. Don't put all the different contentious points in one discussion and don't try to make it to a question of believe. That's mischief. People can differentiate well.
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  #16  
Old 03-03-2007, 01:17 PM
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Ups, I needed a long time to write/translate and missed the posts in between. I have a date soon today. See you later.
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Old 03-03-2007, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: RE: Re: RE: Advantages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockman
Prove it!
Explain your posts that say you put the code into the core. And that you came up with .137 as a speed that would defeat the problem.
WHAT code did I put into the core? Your quote doesn't say. I put a lot of code into the core and I already explained which parts of the solenoid code I did modify in the core myself (the power settings and then later removing the downswing). The history file makes it very clear that wpcmame is the one that changed it originally.

I never said I came up with 0.137 as a speed that would defeat the problem. You can't read English, apparently. I said I came up with 0.137 as my idea speed for a flipper aim setting (and if you look at my older tables, I was using LONG before you found this BTTF speed related thing) and that the SAME speed ALSO happens to defeat the BTTF problem (because it's WELL over the range where the problem starts occuring).

Thus, it is by FAR more likely your 0.135 setting is derived from my 0.137 flipper up setting than the other way around because my value came first (as an upswing value) and has NEVER changed. The reason I suggested that same speed for the downswing value to wpcmame is that having the flipper move at the SAME speed is better than a faster speed and at least gives it a consistent appearance. Real flippers are more about power differences than visual speed differences, IMO. A spring can move a flipper down reasonably fast, but it has no power behind it. Thus, the idea that flippers need to move considerably slower going downward in the first place is one that I would question without visual proof.

[quote]
Then explain what you meant when you said I asked for the code to be taken out of the core
[quote]

Again, try actually reading instead of making things up. I said you harassed the hell out of me for no good reason, claiming I was stealing credit when I never put any comments in the file to begin with regarding the flipper code. But since you were so insistent I was ripping you off, I found another way around the problem that you can't contest (by removing the code altogether that controls the downswing, which makes NO difference in function with my tables, since they were the same value to begin with and ALL other tables would then get the same consistency (they move down the same as up). The ONLY tables 'broken' (your word; I don't call BTTF a 'broken' problem; I call it a once-in-awhile nuisance) are ones that are using very slow flipper speeds (say less than around 0.08 or thereabouts).

[quote]
And explain why you don't care if that breaks anyone else's tables, as far as the problem.
[quote]

It's not that I don't care. It's that I got sick of your constant bullshit attacks and as I've said, I do NOT reward BAD behavior. It'd take an author all of 1 minute to address the issue in any given table one way or the other (either to use a different speed value or to copy the old routine into the script instead). And what I said about the routine as it was defeating the ORIGINAL point of the downswing code is absolutely true. It was not supposed to be a flipper fix, but a way to give a slower appearance for the downswing.

But since you continue to attack, lie and harrass me about it, I will NOT change it back because like I said, I do NOT reward bad behavior.

Quote:
I explained what happened, who was involved, and why.
No, you attacked, cussed, screamed, whined and then did it again 1000 times over. That's what you did.

Quote:
I said the fix was put into the core so everyone would be able to benefit from it, (For the good of the community).
So how odd that you would take something that's not broken and use it to attack me and accuse me of doing things I clearly did not do (take credit for something with a comment I did not write) when you should have known if you piss someone off, you will get FUCKED over by them sooner or later. Maybe you don't see that because you continually fuck yourself over by getting yourself banned from everywhere you go because you cannot control yourself. Oh well. That's not my problem. It's something for you to take up with a pyschiatrist.

Quote:
If you have better arguments than that, what are you waiting for?
I don't see any arguments. I see you distorting and lying about what I did say and then asking why I said something I did not say to begin with. It's moot because I did not say it.

I've explained exactly what happened historically above and there for you to read as many times as it takes to sink into your head.

When you tell someone off that has power over you, EXPECT TO GET FUCKED OVER! You clearly don't know whom you're messing with or you'd have gotten that a LONG time ago and wouldn't be banned on every single VP site out there except this one (and then only because Jon won't allow it).
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  #18  
Old 03-03-2007, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: RE: Re: RE: Advantages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockman
Prove it!
Explain your posts that say you put the code into the core. And that you came up with .137 as a speed that would defeat the problem.
Quote:
WHAT code did I put into the core? Your quote doesn't say. I put a lot of code into the core and I already explained which parts of the solenoid code I did modify in the core myself (the power settings and then later removing the downswing). The history file makes it very clear that wpcmame is the one that changed it originally.
None that I know of. It was just a quote. It was in reference to the ball through the flipper, and I'm just pointing out that you were taking credit for it.

Quote:
I never said I came up with 0.137 as a speed that would defeat the problem. You can't read English, apparently. I said I came up with 0.137 as my idea speed for a flipper aim setting (and if you look at my older tables, I was using LONG before you found this BTTF speed related thing) and that the SAME speed ALSO happens to defeat the BTTF problem (because it's WELL over the range where the problem starts occuring).
Again, it's just a quote. People can read it, and there is what you said. You can't change it.

Quote:
Thus, it is by FAR more likely your 0.135 setting is derived from my 0.137 flipper up setting than the other way around because my value came first (as an upswing value) and has NEVER changed. The reason I suggested that same speed for the downswing value to wpcmame is that having the flipper move at the SAME speed is better than a faster speed and at least gives it a consistent appearance. Real flippers are more about power differences than visual speed differences, IMO. A spring can move a flipper down reasonably fast, but it has no power behind it. Thus, the idea that flippers need to move considerably slower going downward in the first place is one that I would question without visual proof.
You really don't understand, do you? I know it was your UpSwing speed. But you can see by the evidence that that has nothing to do with any up swing speed. You argue that to use my suggested value would not be any good because you don't want you down speed fasterr, you would rather have it equal than faster. IT'S S L O W E R PacDude, not faster. And it was the heigh end for the fastest of tables. Your tables could this very day be using slower and more realistic downswings because you use such a fast up swing, and you would not need triggers, or would you have balls through the flipper.

[quote]
Then explain what you meant when you said I asked for the code to be taken out of the core
[quote]

Quote:
Again, try actually reading instead of making things up. I said you harassed the hell out of me for no good reason, claiming I was stealing credit when I never put any comments in the file to begin with regarding the flipper code. But since you were so insistent I was ripping you off, I found another way around the problem that you can't contest (by removing the code altogether that controls the downswing, which makes NO difference in function with my tables, since they were the same value to begin with and ALL other tables would then get the same consistency (they move down the same as up). The ONLY tables 'broken' (your word; I don't call BTTF a 'broken' problem; I call it a once-in-awhile nuisance) are ones that are using very slow flipper speeds (say less than around 0.08 or thereabouts).
Bull Shit. You started making excuses as to why the credit for you should be in there.

[quote]
And explain why you don't care if that breaks anyone else's tables, as far as the problem.
[quote]

Quote:
It's not that I don't care. It's that I got sick of your constant bullshit attacks and as I've said, I do NOT reward BAD behavior. It'd take an author all of 1 minute to address the issue in any given table one way or the other (either to use a different speed value or to copy the old routine into the script instead). And what I said about the routine as it was defeating the ORIGINAL point of the downswing code is absolutely true. It was not supposed to be a flipper fix, but a way to give a slower appearance for the downswing.
I'm not talking about authors. And don't tell me that which you learned from me and try to make it look like I don't understand. What was put in by the team at first looked good, helped the problem, and was fixed by the putting in a code modification that speeded them up so no one would have the problem. That was done by a consensus.

Quote:
But since you continue to attack, lie and harrass me about it, I will NOT change it back because like I said, I do NOT reward bad behavior.
Because you call me a liar, and I am not, nor did I accept your excuses why credit to you should stay there, and you on the other hand lied to the membership, saying I wanted the fix taken out and even demanded it, you can have it. If no one else cares you can keep it out. I know it is not going to stop YOU from having the problem fixed in your tables, PacDude, and yes, you are as welcome to use it as anyone else is, That's why It's there. If you still, after all of this think you still have a right to have balls through the flipper because you learned from me that the flipper speed can be set in the script, then have it, and keep it away from others that can't do it in a minute, Keep it from those that don't even know that it could be fixed. Keep it from those that don't use the forums, keep it from everyone, you are not keeping it from me, only many other people. Be proud of your work. Tell us again how you put the code into the script and how you found that 1.35 was a number that would work to defeat the problem.

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I explained what happened, who was involved, and why.
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No, you attacked, cussed, screamed, whined and then did it again 1000 times over. That's what you did.
I was not nice to you, I admit that. That's not going to change though. This was based on what you did when I came up with it, (told everyone that you did and you came up with the setting to use as well). You took credit for it, and officially got yourself credit for it in the script.

Quote:
I said the fix was put into the core so everyone would be able to benefit from it, (For the good of the community).
Quote:
So how odd that you would take something that's not broken and use it to attack me and accuse me of doing things I clearly did not do (take credit for something with a comment I did not write) when you should have known if you piss someone off, you will get FUCKED over by them sooner or later. Maybe you don't see that because you continually fuck yourself over by getting yourself banned from everywhere you go because you cannot control yourself. Oh well. That's not my problem. It's something for you to take up with a pyschiatrist.
How odd that I would use something that is not broken to attack you? It is broken. No longer can people use any speed they want, (or are stupid enough to use, in your words) and not have the problem. It is not as good. It is not even close. As far as dalls through the flipper being taken care of with all up swing speeds used, it is worthless, it is garbage, it is broken.

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If you have better arguments than that, what are you waiting for?
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I don't see any arguments. I see you distorting and lying about what I did say and then asking why I said something I did not say to begin with. It's moot because I did not say it.

I've explained exactly what happened historically above and there for you to read as many times as it takes to sink into your head.

When you tell someone off that has power over you, EXPECT TO GET FUCKED OVER! You clearly don't know whom you're messing with or you'd have gotten that a LONG time ago and wouldn't be banned on every single VP site out there except this one (and then only because Jon won't allow it)
This does not even earn a response. It is not true. Your own quotes is all anyone needs to see that. I did not lie one single time about this. You have told the truth rarely about any of this.

I know you have the power to lie cheat and steal when it comes to the core.vbs file. I understand that you have the backing of the staff of VPF and PN too. But that don't make you right. I don't grudge the power, and like I said, you are using it against everyone but me. I know more about how to fix this problem than you do. My tables don't use the core anymore either.

Your table are targeted for modding. I happen to have that power. And you don't know who you are fucking with.

Below is a text file, zipped up.
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  #19  
Old 03-03-2007, 06:47 PM
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Even though I've put the code into the VBS core, I typically include a separate sub for it in my tables (which allows me to disable a double flipper sound in some tables for one thing, which can be incredibly annoying sounding in VP tables for some reason). If you do that, you can rename it and use a separate one for the upper flippers if you prefer them to have a slower downswing. There is no rule that says you have to use VBS routines for everything anyway. The issue is definitely not as much of an isssue with upper type flippers regardless so you could easily substitute a different sub there. Of course, some older tables use only solenoid to drive more than one flipper which is where the secondary variable pass comes in normally. You'd probably have to rewrite the handler sub to separate their speeds there. It wouldn't very hard to do, though.
Quote:
I came up with 0.137 while working on TAF in the past precisely for aiming purposes (that's why it's such an odd number). I also found it worked well to eliminate the ball-through-flipper issue on the downswing. I'm not sure exactly where the "cutoff" region would be on the downswing, though.
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Old 03-03-2007, 06:57 PM
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Man are you stupid, Shockman. You CANNOT comprehend what you're reading. That makes it VERY difficult to get ANY point across to you. This is obvious because you fuck it up every time.

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None that I know of. It was just a quote. It was in reference to the ball through the flipper, and I'm just pointing out that you were taking credit for it.
So it's 'just a quote' with no context about what I was referring to, exactly and that proves exactly what? Nothing. You said I took credit for IN THE VBS files. But I never took credit for flipper changes in the VBS files. So, that's why you are a liar.

Quote:
Again, it's just a quote. People can read it, and there is what you said. You can't change it.
Why should I have to change something? If you misunderstood what I was talking about, I've clarified for all the fucking world to see here. But that's not good enough for you and since I "can't change it" I guess it never will be. So you're just going to rant on forever about something you admit I can't change? This is why I think you're a fucking idiot, Shockman.

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Bull Shit. You started making excuses as to why the credit for you should be in there.
I've said it before and I'll say it one last time. It was *NOT* a fucking credit you fucking IDIOT! It simply said I e-mailed wpcmame with a suggestion to change the variable value to 0.137. That is 100% *TRUE*. So how the fuck can it be in error or a false credit when the statement is TRUE? It does not say I found the bug in VP. It does not say I even came up with any code. It simply said I e-mailed him with the suggestion to use that value which I did. You did not e-mail him! Thus, saying you e-mailed him would be a LIE.

You REFUSE to either comprehend or admit that statement is as I've said it is so you are a fucking LIAR and everyone can see it!

Quote:
Because you call me a liar, and I am not
The fuck you aren't! Read above! Read the whole fucking thread. If you aren't lying, you're just plain too fucking STUPID to know the difference! And frankly, I'm starting to think that just might be the case since you can't seem to comprehend ANYTHING people tell you. You just know it doesn't fit what you already think so you tell them off instead.

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nor did I accept your excuses why credit to you should stay there
It's not a credit. I should put it right back in as by removing it this past update, I've altered history.

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and you on the other hand lied to the membership, saying I wanted the fix taken out and even demanded it, you can have
I NEVER said that. You must be seeing the Phantom Vision(tm) version of this board from the netherworld or something. What I said was you HARASSED ME demending a I remove the CREDIT (which was not a credit) because I was stealing your credit, so INSTEAD of giving you what you want (because I do NOT reward BAD behavior), I just plain REMOVED THE WHOLE FUCKING THING! That way you can't say there's anything being used in the VBS files that you aren't getting credited for!

In short, FUCK YOU! Hell, I would think even you could understand that concept.

Quote:
many other people. Be proud of your work. Tell us again how you put the code into the script and how you found that 1.35 was a number that would work to defeat the problem.
When the fuck did I ever use a value of 1.35? (I use 0.137) and always have. It simply happens to defeat the problem without any downswing code required. Because without the downswing code, it just uses the upswing value for the downswing value and either way, it's the SAME value. Thus, I don't need any 'flipper fix idea' or 'flipper fix code' to get rid of the BTTF problem. I only neede to REMOVE the downswing code that was CAUSING the problem.

You just don't seem to get that because it's too complicated a concept for someone as stupid as you are.

Quote:
I said the fix was put into the core so everyone would be able to benefit from it, (For the good of the community).
But you accused me of stealing your work when I didn't write one comment in that core, not even the one you were referring to. You didn't say wpcmame wrongly gave me the credit (even though it's NOT a credit the way it's worded beyond saying I e-mailed him), but rather you said *I* was responsible for it, even though I didn't write it. And thus you proceeded to attack me just like you do here, only for the opposite reason (you didn't want the so-called credit in the VBS files and so I was a thief! So I remove it and the offending code and I'm STILL a thief! You can't fucking have it both ways!)

Quote:
I know you have the power to lie cheat and steal when it comes to the core.vbs file. I understand that you have the backing of the staff of VPF and PN too. But that don't make you right.
No, it just makes you STUPID. And if you think it's 'right' to wrongly attack someone for something they didn't do (even if it were a credit, I didn't write it so how am I responsible for it?), then you have one fucked up idea about right and wrong.

Quote:
Your table are targeted for modding. I happen to have that power. And you don't know who you are fucking with.
I'm fucking with an insane psychopath that can't read basic English.
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Old 03-03-2007, 07:37 PM
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That was not a good try PacDude. I just wanted you to say yourself that it was the same value and you did. You should have stuck with .002 being a big difference.

You e-mailed wpc' telling him of my fix, and suggesting the same number. You did not tell him that it was me. I was happy enough discussing it with Destruk, because he was also on the team. And we were. Why did you not e-mail Destruk and get credit for it? Because you knew you could not get credit for it if you e-mailed Destruk. It was your action that got you the credit, and I'm sure wpc' thought he was doing the right thing. You knew in fact that it was already being discussed, about being put into the core, and you could not wait, but you did not have to wait. I showed you how to take care of it in your scripts, and you did not have to wait for anyone to do that.
Do you think he would have thought it was the right thing if he knew I came up with both the fix AND the number, and that I was discussing the core with a team member already? How could you?
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Old 03-03-2007, 08:51 PM
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Normally, the flippers don't hit the ball on the downswing (or at least not very often) so it's not something I usually worry about, except to make sure it doesn't trap the ball and freeze the table on upper type flippers (that became a problem for awhile on my Road Show table with the lower left flipper). I was worried when PK was using values that were incredibly high for the downswing (as I did see a ball get hit on the lower flipper once and go flying back up into the table it was hit so hard and bounced so much off the lower trough area wall. But my value isn't high enough to do something like that. In general, though, I guess it comes down to whether you'd prefer to have ball-through flipper type issues or a slow down-swing that doesn't do much to the ball. But for upper type flippers you can do something else.

Even though I've put the code into the VBS core, I typically include a separate sub for it in my tables (which allows me to disable a double flipper sound in some tables for one thing, which can be incredibly annoying sounding in VP tables for some reason). If you do that, you can rename it and use a separate one for the upper flippers if you prefer them to have a slower downswing. There is no rule that says you have to use VBS routines for everything anyway. The issue is definitely not as much of an isssue with upper type flippers regardless so you could easily substitute a different sub there. Of course, some older tables use only solenoid to drive more than one flipper which is where the secondary variable pass comes in normally. You'd probably have to rewrite the handler sub to separate their speeds there. It wouldn't very hard to do, though.
Here is the full quote, I would have posted the whole thread, but the first part of the quote makes it clear what the context of the second part is.
All this talk about the consequences of fast flippers and not a word about power. Could it be that this was before you even knew you could set the flipper power in the script too? It looks that way.

BBB is back up.
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Old 03-03-2007, 09:24 PM
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Why would I give a fuck about YOUR value period, Shockman? I'm taking your word here that it really was 0.135 that far back (as I'm certainly not going to go fishing at VPF to try and find that post). The fact a value like that could be so close to the 0.137 value I've used for YEARS tells me you most likely ripped it off MY value!

Why would I e-mail Destruk when Destruk has NEVER been the maintainer of the VBS files? It's only ever been Wpcmame and then myself. Destruk sent me updates to include (documented in the core, of course). I e-mailed wcpmame because he was the maintainer! Apparently, that 1+1 logic is too complex for you again!

And I most certainly did include a link back to the discussion thread about it at the time, so all he had to do was click on that link to read about it first hand. But seeing as all he said was I e-mailed him the value to include, he wasn't crediting me with anything other than stating I e-mailed him. You seem to think that's a BIG deal, though seeing as you've been making huge fucking mountains out of tiny pimples!

And again, you did NOT come up with the 'fix' that was in the VBS core. If I recall correctly, you applied your 'fix' in the keys section, not the VBS core. I copied the VBS core over to my tables and changed the variable to a static 0.137 value. I contacted wpcmame simply to try and get a higher value in the core. I said that I SUGGESTED a value of 0.137 as that's what I use. He could have used whatever he wanted as he was in control. He could have gone to that thread and read all about the matter. Maybe he did even. I really don't know what he did other than include the 0.137 value and state that he changed it after I e-mailed him. BIG FUCKING DEAL.

And AGAIN, if you had just nicely asked for a mention in the VBS core, I would have accomodated you. I can't stress that enough. I didn't include all those tiny credits in there because I thought *I* should take credit for things other people fixed, addresssed or suggested. That should be obvious from the core credits and the little things I credited and from tables like TZ where I gave credit to every little thing someone sent me or changed and even my own tables where I credit source images, etc. even in the Table Info section.

But no, I'm a fucking thief because I didn't predict the future and know that Wpcmame would mention I e-mailed him and you would see this as credit hogging thievery and pound that into the dead horse until even the ground itself can't see any trace of a horse left.... LOL.

You are such a fucking dickhead.
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:20 PM
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What's about my thread?

You have fun in fights? You get satisfaction? What else?

However, there never was and there is no credit in the core.vbs about bttf.

A suggestion to add a fix to a file is nearly the same as to report about a problem. Nothings else and it's never considered as credit. If there was credit needed from whatever reason it naturally should be in the file.

I still use vpvbs 3.23 and from that I can't report about any bttf problems with 3.24.

Please tell me any (vpm) table I could/should try to play using vpvbs 3.24 to detect/notice the 'new' bttf problem!

I'm near to the conclusion you both don't ever want to understand what the other is talking about. Why? Did you both meet personal in real life and had hefty animosity?
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:32 PM
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LOTR is the only table I can think of offhand that I know has slow flippers settings (other than Shockman's apparently or he wouldn't have known the difference), although I'm not sure if they're slow enough to cause it (kind of machine dependent where the breakoff point is).

Arguing and two-bit modding is all Shockman knows anymore. I guess MMPAC was too much work for him. He'd rather spend all his energy beating dead horses.
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:33 PM
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Did anyone of you ever considered to talk more nice to each other? Don't you think if you leave out any abuse at any good point, the other would/could have a better chance to reply without the need to reply to your abuse and could post a proper reply? These silly abuse destroy any chance to solve the conflict.
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:37 PM
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I will try LOTR with 3.24 tomorrow.?!
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Old 03-04-2007, 01:33 AM
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Yogi, you're a sweetheart, but seriously, do you think PD or Shockman could ever backdown or lose an argument? These guys are so alike, I'm beginning to think they are the SAME person with a multiple personality disorder. Seriously, have you ever seen both of these guys logged in at the same time? Can you imagine the conversations they are having with themself in the mirror? It's Mr Hyde & Mr Hyde! Someone call a doctor! What a movie of the week they would make.... If they ever could find a broad! Even their screen names are interchangable.... ShockDude & PacMan!! How could've we been so blind?

Case Closed!
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Old 03-04-2007, 02:39 AM
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Yeah, PacDude is my oldest alt. Now that that's out in the open, I'm sure the VPF staff is going to ban me again. Shucks.
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Old 03-04-2007, 06:06 AM
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Have I told you to go fuck yourself yet today, Bob? I forget. I wouldn't want to let you down since I'm actually Shockman and I get into arguments and flame wars with myself all the time (multiple personalities don't you know, even though they're obviously almost alike since you noticed we're the same person). I'm also Randy, BTW! So why don't you bend over?
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