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  #61  
Old 07-30-2018, 06:41 PM
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It appears from the looks of this thread some people here are gonna be hella pissed off in 2020 when Trump gets re-elected in a Reagan like landslide.


Trump the person was always a dipshit.
Trump the President is getting shit done.


To date, there's no bodies stacked in the street, old people aren't dying in massive numbers, the planet is still turning, the sky isn't falling, water isn't polluted, nuclear war is no closer, puppies and babies are not, repeat ARE NOT, being fed into a wood chipper ... the left behaving in this fashion is what is driving away their base.


I have never been for one side or the other, but the sheer madness of the left is destroying it's own party.


Do any of the pro left, pro Hillary guys here really want socialism like Cortez is spouting ??
This is the natural progression your party is currently undertaking.


If you want to save your party, or as LVC says, America, leave all this hysterical shit behind and get together a platform America will back.
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  #62  
Old 07-30-2018, 08:55 PM
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On the contrary, it's hard to think of a single area in which the Trump regime isn't failing miserably. Well, at least, in terms of what the relevant body of best experts actually have to say across a range of issues. Economics, environmental, diplomacy, Net Neutrality, statecraft and especially cybersecurity and IP protections... you can pretty much name it.

So, yes... experts. Not tree-huggers, not extremist groups, not political opportunists, but actual professionals who the rest of the world reads, follows and consults when their specialty is sought. Those folks.

For example-- if there was an issue with a big tree in your yard possibly falling on your house in the near future, and a respected team of structural engineers, disaster management specialists and arborists (etc) happened to be standing nearby and had something to say about it with no agenda or profit motives for themselves, would you be willing to hear what their opinion was, or would you be more inclined to listen to good ol' Jim-Bob down the road? (TBH, Jim-Bob hardly knows jack about the matter but is entertaining as hell, and most importantly he thinks you'll be just fine!)

But seriously, how people honestly expected a complete political amateur with a famously short attention span, and whose years of 'business success' mainly comes down to the art of the scam and money laundering to be a competent president in the first place is a question probably best answered by social scientists.

This is the same president who can barely keep a cabinet together, who gets irritated and defensive when they occasionally try to talk about the reality of their jobs, and who knows pretty much jack-shit about the rest of the world and politics in general. The same guy who tends to fill important national jobs by handing them to unqualified cronies who are only meant to toe the line, anyway.

Even so, the fact that the GOP's political M.O. in recent decades eventually led to a complete doofus like Trump being nominated in the first place is a whole dysfunctional story in itself. I've seen plenty of conservatives complain about just that kind of thing, but it doesn't matter. The modern GOP electoral machinery has been perfected too well at this point.

ANYWAY ... regardless of all that ... regardless of those who would simply chalk my comments up to personal hatred of Trump, or conservatives, or whatever label is easiest, there's nevertheless a fundamental problem here which goes back to what I said in the very beginning.

What it amounts to is this-- you folks who believe things are nicely on track are directly putting your lives and your futures in the hands of pro-Trump talking points and similar POV's. In other words, you've gotten yourself to a point where you're disregarding what the best experts across subject after subject are actually saying, and choosing something else, instead.

I just hope you remember that one day in the near future.

Now maybe I'm just being a dramatic, lib-tard alarmist, and everything will go just swell for America, and The Donald will go down in history as a perfectly effective prez, and most of the best professionals and experts will turn out to be quite mistaken in their assessments.

And if that's the case, and reality proves to work much differently than I thought, then I'm willing to learn the hows and whys, and admit that I was all wrong. I guarantee you this, tho-- I'd be confused as hell for years afterwards. Hopefully some kind soul will pray for me.
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  #63  
Old 08-05-2018, 02:46 AM
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Too funny Ike.

Like you don't believe I can grab "experts" who say the exact opposite.
It's a silly argument and always falls to the side you are on.


GDP is 4%+ ... that's good right ?
Unemployment is lower than forever and minority and women unemployment is at all time lows ... also good right ?

Let me guess, you have experts that dispute this ?

Typical.

Everyone's hatred for Trump is blinding them from their own failings.

LeBron said, and I paraphrase, Trump was dividing the country over his stance on kneeling during The National Anthem, but sports are a way to unite the country, all races, religions, etc can come together under sports.

As if coming together under The National Anthem is somehow second to sports ?

Stupidest thing ever said.

Where are the libs today when Trump retaliated ?

Exactly.

LeBron was opening a house for orphans ... how could that be stupid ?
Trump is a monster.

Again .... typical pseudo-intellectual bullshit.

Instead of reading and responding to one sentence in my post, check the rest.
Again, If you want to save your party, or as LVC says, America, leave all this hysterical shit behind and get together a platform America will back.


p.s. just because some one is named Jim Bob, doesn't mean he is stupid.
I will take the word of a guy with his hands in ACTUAL dirt anyday over some dumbass in a classroom who thinks he understands the real world.


p.s.s. Just because you read a book that no one ever heard of, or even cares to read, don't make ya smart.
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  #64  
Old 08-05-2018, 01:07 PM
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Kinda passing through at the moment, but a quick reply:


> Like you don't believe I can grab "experts" who say the exact opposite.
> It's a silly argument and always falls to the side you are on.

Uh, no... that's why I make sure to mention "body of experts" when I talk about what the best professionals have to say about an issue. Pretty sure that's what I said above, too.

Because in reality, the difference between an "expert" who can spit forth whatever idea you want and the world's body of best experts on said subject is hugely significant. It's like one mouse trying to fight a battle with a pride of lions. In terms of science, reason and rationality, that is.

It's moreso in politics and popular opinion that you get these "conservative" kinds of talking points about there being "two legitimate sides" to a science or expert debate. For example, like the nonsensical idea that there are "two sides to the debate" about global climate change. Just... no. There aren't. In fact, all the world's national academies and every legit body of science I've ever heard of agrees that it's man's activities the past couple hundred years (and accelerating) that are responsible for the world heating up on average, leading to all the kinds of effects we're seeing now.

The idea that there are "two sides to the issue" is in fact a classic propaganda routine, much of which directly goes back to the same spin doctors who worked for Big Tobacco in this case. Essentially it involves large monied interests manufacturing attractive answers for consumption by people unaware of (or not interested in) how reality actually works. For example-- that smoking manufactured tobacco products is perfectly fine for one's health.

Point is, your idea that each of us can just choose the expert that conveniently fits our opinion is rubbish, just as its always been in the era of science. Science at its most most developed, documented and articulated state, that is. IMO it's also something no adult human should be deluding themselves with if they're actually interested in the reality of cause and effect.

In the end it's each person's choice of course. Still, if you have enough people making a poor or unsustainable choice, there will always be consequences.
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by da_prez View Post
Just because you read a book that no one ever heard of, or even cares to read, don't make ya smart.
Actually, the fact that I've read a book is exactly what makes me smart. That's kind of what reading books is known for. The fact that you haven't read a book is exactly what makes you a fucking moron. It's kind of what not reading books is known for. You know what else makes me smart? I've never voted for a traitor to be president of the United States.

Oh, did you miss the news over the weekend,? Your boyfriend admitted that his equally-stupid son who doesn't like to read books either met with foreign nationals in an effort to affect the outcome of a United States election. Actually admitted it. Just shat it out in one of his "tweets", because he's God's perfect idiot. Now, I'm not expecting a proudly "book-free" person like you to know much about all those pesky laws we have floating around our country, so allow me to include 52 USC 30121 and 36 USC 510:

A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election. No person shall knowingly solicit, accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation prohibited by [this law].

What a surprise! The president was stupid enough to admit that his son broke a federal law! It's like he set out to specifically make you look like a complete and utter moron, what with you oinking about the GDP. Oh, boy! Four whole percent! That's, like, two or three IPhones! That really makes it all worthwhile to have a Russian stooge in the White House, doesn't it?

Tell me something; when does it all get to be enough for people like you? Do you have a moral compass at all? Do you know the difference between "right" and "wrong"? Actually, I don't care about your answer. You've already impressed us with your book-free lifestyle that's left you as ignorant as the day your head slithered out of your mother's greasy hole. You're also a traitor to the United States of America who voted for a Russian stooge. So, really, at the end of the day, who gives a shit what someone like you has to say about anything? You're nothing but country-ruining filth that needs to be scraped off the bottom of America's shoe and sent to live with his Uncle Vlad in a Siberian gulag.

I've pretty much stayed away from this site because of its overabundance of Trumptards and Nazis. I'd like to keep it that way. Don't bring my name up in anymore of your witless posts, comrade.
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  #66  
Old 08-07-2018, 05:47 PM
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Following up a little more on your post, Prez--

Me, I tend to feel sad, not angry.

Yes I do spend a lot of time reading different news and analyses from as wide a spectrum as I can, plus reading up on history, learning about human behavior, and trying to piece it all together. It's endless work and a huge PITA to be honest, but in the end it helps me understand things a lot more clearly than sitting back and relying on narratives.

Now, I do think Obama did a pretty darn good job for his part in saving our bacon in the Great Recession of 2008 and in leaving the country in optimum shape economically by the end of his run. No, some jobs were never going to come back just because of factors like labor costs, automation and industry efficiency, but OTOH unemployment was at low levels, GDP was fine, trade agreements were working well on the whole, and the USA was an effective and respected partner with our allies at the end of his 2nd term. Sure, we've all sniped on the dude for this or that across the years, but those particular accomplishments aren't nothing IMO. Those are in fact accomplishments worthy of respect and recognition IMO.

And then the Donald comes along and literally in his first couple weeks, starts taking credit for much of that, plus various initiatives that were in fact started under the previous administration. Remember that? In fact his taking credit for shit he had nothing to do with has been a classic theme in his life, which I guess most Trump voters already know since I trust they read up on his backstory before electing him.

But moving on, I don't remember the body of economic experts thinking that a trade war would actually be a good idea. (especially against our allies!) The reasoning seems to be that it typically leads to short term gain, but in the long run, makes our trade partners less interested in our goods and more self-reliant. It's an inconvenience to them right now, like China most notably is experiencing, but over time they'll retool their production and find different trading partners. For example, China was already pushing hard to improve their own semiconductor technology (probably with plenty of stolen secrets from us), a business we had previously been the kings of, and now they have even more economic reason to do so. IIRC China also has much of the rare earth metals and processing plants for such which are vital to modern technology. That's the kind of thing that could become... problematic for us one day.

This isn't that hard to understand, right? Because, see-- one of the USA's traditional elite strengths has been technology, and our primary source of tech (and goods) manufacturing has been China. So now under Trump, instead of focusing on something which would have actually helped, i.e. cybersecurity and other measures to cut down on IP theft, instead we're effectively firing back with slings and arrows and daring China to beat us. Yeah, let's see how that works out for us in the coming years.

Meanwhile we have other immediate fallout from this dumbass tariffs war, such as our steel, soybean and recycling industries (among others) losing vital trading partners and business. (I'm not even sure we have anywhere practical to send our recycling to, anymore. "Bust out another landfill.")

Or does anybody really think our hurting domestic export businesses will just magically maintain their strength and infrastructure during this whole trade war, and that foreign trade partners will refuse to adapt, keep suffering for awhile, then eventually meekly cave and wave the white flag, leading to a permanent leg up for the USA, thereby helping to... "make America great again?"

Really, these kinds of strategies borne of a huge disconnect from reality are like stupid shit that a child comes up with, and then other children latch their faith on to. Unfortunately and unbelievably, said child has somehow, someway been installed as leader of the world's superpower. During a critically high-stakes stage of late human history, no less.

It's like some hilarious clusterfluff of a dark comedy, except it's all real in this case.

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  #67  
Old 08-10-2018, 06:55 AM
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It’s called “Trump Derangement syndrome”. Trump haters have been driven insane! Bread through neurolinguistic programming spread by every corporately owned information source and dementing fools everywhere. You frothing Trump haters continue to put a smile on my face. As head of CIA William Casey told us in the 80’s “We Will Know Our Disinformation Campaign Is A Success When Everything The Public Believes Is A Lie” Some of US wised up. We are the lovers of President Trump. We have been burned by the lying news media in the past, just like you Trump Haters are being burned right now. We are the new Silent Majority. We stay silent(Mostly) because you dupes are clearly unhinged. We may even feign agreement with you nuts just to keep things civil!
My family has already benefited from Trump’s changes in tax laws. We paid zero Federal Taxes this year.(The State still nicked us for $2500)And no more of that Obama Care "Mandate" penalty... I am happy to see some of the best employment Stats of my 60 + years. Illegal immigration is down over 50%. My family believes our right to defend ourselves is preserved. 1000’s of children have been rescued from bondage, slavery and international sex trade. 18,000 indictments are being handed down against these monsters. Many government officials have been prosecuted or resigned already. The “Swamp” is being drained. Corrupt judges are being removed. The military court system is being employed where necessary to incarcerate previously untouchable criminals. All this in the face of heavy media complicity and interference. It's OK, Even the most ardent haters are benefiting too. We are just getting started…


P.S. I am very proud President Trump has defused the North Korea situation. The Korea peninsula will be re-united by the end of President Donald J. Trump's second term. The U.S.A. split that country apart and the U.S.A. is going to put it back together
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  #68  
Old 08-10-2018, 09:11 PM
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At any rate, and getting back to the OP, I would think most "conservatives" will be pleased if/when Pence takes over and carries on a certain amount of Trump's policies and otherwise cleans up a good deal of his mess.

Just getting back to a more cooperative footing with our allies and the rest of the world should be something most Americans want to see.
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Old 09-09-2018, 03:29 PM
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Having read through this thread, I figure poor ol' Bill is going to burst a blood vessel or worse!!!!FFS guys, chill.



If you cannot appreciate that there are two sides to every political thread without reverting to repeated personal insults ... perhaps it's time to avoid getting involved with such threads.


Certainly no longer the friendly site of old
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:59 PM
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Certainly no longer the friendly site of old


Elton, my friend, I know you mean that in a good-spirited, friendly sense, but man... I guess you weren't around for the Great Pacdude Wars! (and later, the Great Shockman Wars)

Au contraire, that shite was about as angry, vicious and personal as it ever got around here. And that stuff wasn't even about something as endlessly controversial as politics. No-- it was about a pretty liberal pinball emulation site and its 'overly-draconian' rules.

By comparison, I agree Bill indeed got a bit worked up there, but by the same token-- Bill was essentially right. The situation with Trump is indeed pretty insane for all intents and purposes. Even in your neck of the woods you have that reactionary Brexit thing, which UKers seem to be regretting more and more. Like it or not it's a strange, turbulent, troubling age.

I think the only real way people think what's happening these days is 'no big deal' is if you're just the average schmuck who doesn't really understand what's going on and sort of just wants it all to go away. But if you look at certain explosive periods in history, like Nixon and The Vietnam War in recent memory, people were perfectly right to be up in arms about all that.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:46 AM
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Even in your neck of the woods you have that reactionary Brexit thing, which UKers seem to be regretting more and more. Like it or not it's a strange, turbulent, troubling age.



Only the wet, wringing bloody liberals Nic. The rest of us cannot wait to leave greater Germany! Oops, I mean the EU!
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Old 10-01-2018, 01:36 AM
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What a treat it is to get a lecture on derangement from a carpet-chewing, pants-shitting lunatic like yourself, Keith! Remember the day after the election when you wrote right here on this site that Hillary Clinton had left the country with $10 billion? That turned out to be a crazy, stupid lie told by you, a crazy, stupid liar. You see derangement every time you look in the mirror… or when you catch your crinkled reflection in the tin-foil you wear as a hat.
The only person draining the swamp in Washington is Robert Mueller… and, boy, does he ever know how to swamp-drain! Hey, whatever happened to Trump National Security Advisor Michael “lock her up” Flynn? Oh yeah… he’s being locked up after pleading guilty! Trump campaign advisor George Papadopoulos? Pleaded guilty. Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort? Not just any crime for him… he’s guilty of being an actual traitor to the United States of America! Dimwitted Donnie’s longtime porn-star lawyer Michael Cohen? Pleaded guilty to eight counts of fraud making him guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, as well as confessing that Dimwitted Donnie is an unindicted co-conspirator in his crimes. And where are the other soldiers in Dimwitted Donnie’s swamp-draining war? Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, gone. Chief of Staff Reince Priebus, gone. Racist Steve Bannon, run out of Washington on a rail. Half-witted thief and EPA chief Scott Pruitt forced to resign for being a half-witted thief. Public Liaison leader Omarosa Manigault… well, I think we all know what happened to her! Poor, dimwitted Donnie! Sitting in his swamp all alone with no one left to play with! Last week, representatives from just about every country in the world gathered at the United Nations to laugh in the face of the president of the United States for the first time in the organization’s history, because he’s a sad, stupid worldwide joke.
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Old 10-01-2018, 07:29 PM
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What's particularly face-palming to me is that if Trump had run as a Dem in the GE, these very same "conservatives" and GOPers would be having a field day with him.

The hypocrisy is unreal.

The best they can really do is just attack back harder with all kinds of diverse accusations, mindless or not that they usually don't have facts on their side. It's almost their whole playbook at this point. "Mueller is leading a vicious, petty witchhunt, and what about, what about, what about the Clintons?!"

Indeed as I see it, that's pretty representative of how morally bankrupt the American Conservative faction has been for a while, now -- roughly since the time of the Southern Strategy, I think. But it seems like they've been getting more extremist, more hysterical, more shameless and really, more bigoted in recent years. I just hope a healthy percentage of them are just going along for the ride so to speak, and are actually better people than that as individuals.
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Old 11-25-2018, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Savage View Post
> Like you don't believe I can grab "experts" who say the exact opposite.
> It's a silly argument and always falls to the side you are on.

Uh, no... that's why I make sure to mention "body of experts" when I talk about what the best professionals have to say about an issue. Pretty sure that's what I said above, too.

Because in reality, the difference between an "expert" who can spit forth whatever idea you want and the world's body of best experts on said subject is hugely significant. It's like one mouse trying to fight a battle with a pride of lions. In terms of science, reason and rationality, that is.

It's moreso in politics and popular opinion that you get these "conservative" kinds of talking points about there being "two legitimate sides" to a science or expert debate. For example, like the nonsensical idea that there are "two sides to the debate" about global climate change. Just... no. There aren't. In fact, all the world's national academies and every legit body of science I've ever heard of agrees that it's man's activities the past couple hundred years (and accelerating) that are responsible for the world heating up on average, leading to all the kinds of effects we're seeing now.

The idea that there are "two sides to the issue" is in fact a classic propaganda routine, much of which directly goes back to the same spin doctors who worked for Big Tobacco in this case. Essentially it involves large monied interests manufacturing attractive answers for consumption by people unaware of (or not interested in) how reality actually works. For example-- that smoking manufactured tobacco products is perfectly fine for one's health.

Point is, your idea that each of us can just choose the expert that conveniently fits our opinion is rubbish, just as its always been in the era of science. Science at its most most developed, documented and articulated state, that is. IMO it's also something no adult human should be deluding themselves with if they're actually interested in the reality of cause and effect.

Kind of passing through at the moment, but this is drivel.


I'm sure, well almost anyway, we can agree that the 9 people on The Supreme Court are "supposed" to be the most knowledgeable "Constitutionalists" and just the best at law in general.
Yet every friggin decision splits along party lines.


This is reality, it's not my opinion, it is not right wing slant, it is fact.


A group of people still have biases and all your potatoheading won't change that.


You and your hysterical galpal, LVC, better get to work on a platform America will back and can the rhetoric.
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Old 11-26-2018, 07:26 PM
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Ike Savage Ike Savage is offline
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This again? Lol Prez, are you actually trying to conduct a political argument on a yearly post basis? Too flippin' funny, dude...

Anyway, calling something "drivel" because you fail to understand it is not any meaningful commentary. It's like CoilSmoke calling various thoughts a "liberal rant," then beautifully demonstrating that he didn't really understand any of it in the first place.

In cases like these, the labels you choose are really only saying things about yourselves. Mainly-- that far worse than trying to bullshit me, you're perfectly happy to bullshit yourself. Which is why I tend to think of people like you as cowards, frankly.

Anyway, apart from the comical idea that SC justices are "the best at law in general," comparing the way the Supreme Court works to the way scientific majorities work is a terrible analogy. The former is all about politics and man-made laws to impose a certain number of seats for a specific amount of time, with each justice getting a certain proportional say in matters no matter how much of their personal belief system is involved.

The latter is a never-ending vetting process in which the discovery and exacting specifications of the laws of nature are 10,000x more important than the actual humans involved. Because in science, what matters is that which stands up to the most rigorous and relentless testing and attempts to find flaws in the principle. It's a brutal process without favorites.

And that's a big part of why scientists battling other scientists tend to be infinitely tougher and more aggressive towards each other than politicians and judges. As one of those chest-thumping 'strong and proud American' types, those are really the people you should be admiring. Then again, you know what they'd be saying to you if you did look up to them, right?

Anyway, since you like to bring up LVC so much, why don't you take one of his recommendations and read an actual nonpartisan book, or god forbid, an actual HowStuffWorks or Wikipedia entry about how these processes work. Or maybe just go back to sleep, Prez, and say "screw it." Nobody cares if you bring a pea-shooter to a gun fight, dude.

Btw, if I come off arrogantly in posts like this, understand that it takes some intense close-mindedness for me to get there. Don't think you're doing anything clever by dismissing me as being on my high horse. (bonus pts for adding the word "liberal") Because conversations like this go entirely differently with someone who at least starts with self-honesty.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:40 AM
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Wow, Ike! I hope you've got the number of a good attorney, because that post was cold-blooded murder!

Aw, wouldja look at that... we're "galpals!" Because, you know, reading books is something that girls do. I guess being a no-nothing half-wit is strictly "guy" territory. When someone makes you look stupid, forget about trying to make yourself smarter... just try to insult their masculinity like you're a ten-year-old. MAGA!
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  #77  
Old 12-04-2018, 11:36 PM
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Good to see you're still around, sir!

Sounds like the fireworks show is finally starting to begin, vis a vis Mueller's findings.
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