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  #31  
Old 08-09-2009, 04:21 PM
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Oh fuck, here we go again. I don't have anything more to add here, except that I am now going to stay as far away from this shitstorm as I can.

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  #32  
Old 08-09-2009, 04:22 PM
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You have been warned.
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  #33  
Old 08-09-2009, 04:38 PM
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Kevin, why don't you share with us what I would be doing wrong?

We are here to support a FREEWARE community, and yet you behave as if you have exclusive rights to an installer?

Do you have any idea how ludicrous that is?

I will continue development on our installer for the purpose of adding site specific features that you would have no desire to add to your VIP. Your unwillingness to work together has left me no alternative, but to compose one for VPForums.org.

Enough of the "warnings". If you have valid reasoning that creating an installer would be somehow unlawful infringement on your VIP, let me know.

If not, then stop be childish and accept the fact that the show will go on, regardless of you being involved or not.
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  #34  
Old 08-09-2009, 04:58 PM
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*sigh*

Paul, since im a reasonable guy i will make one last attempt at talking to you in private.

I have to go offline now though, so if i dont come back anymore tonite (its 10:00 PM here) i will contact you tomorrow afternoon my time.
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  #35  
Old 08-10-2009, 04:06 PM
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Huch!?

I still haven't used/tried VP 9 (much/only one single test) and I guess I know how to install/setup VP 8/9, so I wasn't that interested/excited about a new VIP, so I didn't post.

I think the idea about the detachment of the different versions is really nice. Another file extension should have been implemented from begin of VP 9 on. Now as there are so many tables in many versions out/released, it's difficult. It's to fear that things and people become more confused than they are already.

You know, I'm already confused since long! My additional confusion about all the different tables and the current changings/renamings in the download sections at VP.org were, besides the mass of new/changed/updated/modded/... tables and missing common interests in the VPLauncher.dat, the main reason I canceled the intention to update the VPLauncher.dat, already before I started. All the table downloads (and that were many) became completely unsorted, although I tried to sort them all the way.

Even if I never really tried your VIP in realtime, Phoenixx (just a test or two/three on the VIP some version numbers ago), I was convinced, it's the right thing and I tried to support you to improve it. I remember I posted a few times to give some info on this or that.

Thank you for all of your efforts on the VIP! It has probably helped a lot of people to install/setup VP/VPM well.

Even if you don't like another all in all installer besides the VIP (that's some understandable as you put much work into it and as it - I assume - works perfectly well for most/all), you don't have an exclusive right to offer a solution, that makes the installation/setup of VP/VPM easier than the standard/intended way of the single program authors.

Actually I'm somehow disappointed by VPF.org and I didn't log in/post for some days (can change again and I will log in again soon, maybe today, because I want some downloads and I want to post about the unwanted and unrequested changings in my Visual Pinball (VP) and Visual PinMAME (VPM) installation/setup guide, which also (besides the manual installation/setup text) refered to your VIP), but in this relation I don't exactly understand your need of any threat towards VPF.org. Can you please make your apprehension more clear for all? Thanks.

You see it's nothing against you or the VIP, it's only a request to make your thinking more clear/understandable.
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  #36  
Old 08-10-2009, 04:13 PM
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Thank you Yogi for the nice words. I really appreciate that.

As for the 'other' thing, i will not comment on this in public until i heard back from Noah.

Sorry, its nothing personal.
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  #37  
Old 08-10-2009, 04:19 PM
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Ok, understandable.
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  #38  
Old 08-10-2009, 06:53 PM
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I like the idea of separate extensions for the various versions.... I'll rename the vp9 tables as i download them if i need to.
If you need bata testers I have a rig with a fresh install of XP and a Fresh install of Windows7 to test in.
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  #39  
Old 08-10-2009, 06:58 PM
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Excellent, testers would be cool!

I will still wait a little with the publishing though, because if Noah responds they way i hope him to respond then i will integrate site information and shortcuts to vpf.org first,...
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  #40  
Old 08-11-2009, 12:09 AM
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I am pleased to inform everyone that Noah and I have settled our differences.

We have made a deal which was acceptable to both sides, and i for one am now looking forward to a constructive cooperation.

See you all tomorrow, my bed is calling and i really have to go sleeping now.
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  #41  
Old 08-11-2009, 12:37 AM
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I haven't really followed this thread much, but a 3rd type of VP? I had enough trouble getting to 8, have but a few ones in 9(4:3 only) and don't have a clue with 16x9 or even how to set it up. I just like to play the games and marvel at the talent this group has.

Sorry if I come off wrong, but I just spent the bulk of my day off trying to fix what should be a somewhat simple installation of a security suite for 2 computers. Little did I know I'd be talking one moment then letting someone I don't even know navigate around my computer to hopefully fix the damn thing(mine worked out fine, the other.....CRAP). And to think this is what I wanted to do for a living! I'd either be on nerve meds all day or possibly dead.

Again, thanks for all you do. Lets just be one big happy family.
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  #42  
Old 08-22-2009, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixx View Post
Oh well, the VIP 3Click isnt even officially announced yet and its already outdated.

Believe it or not but i have just solved the entire VP8/9 problem all by myself. The new VIP (from now on 'Visual Install Pack - Ultimate') installs a fully working dual-setup where each table-type can only be run in the proper version. The 'Tables' folder is gone, instead there is a 'VP8 Tables' and a 'VP9 Tables' folder now which makes it very easy to keep the two incompatible table-types apart. The settings for VP8 and VP9 are also fully separated from each other which means you can set VP8 to run in fullscreen and VP9 to run in windowed etc as each VP version has its own registry key to store its values. In fact if you wish you can even run a VP8 and a VP9 table simultanously, right next to each other, because the one version does not in the slightest interfere with the other.

This has become possible because i did what nanotech should have done from the beginning; namely giving VP9 Tables a different extension. The setup is therefore now so that VP8 will only accept and load tables with a .vpt extension whereas VP9 will only accept and load tables with a .vp9 extension. The auto-load upon clicking a table file is integrated into this as well, which ensures that doubleclicking a table file will automatically start the right version of VP. Of course this means that existing VP9 tables with a .vpt extension will have to be renamed to .vp9, (which kind of makes sense anyway), but thats not a problem because the VP9 editor can now save as .vp9 (exclusively) and i also put a batch file in the 'VP9 Tables' folder which upon running will automatically rename all .vpt's in the folder to .vp9. The batch file can be reused as often as needed.

(New tables should of course only be released with a .vp9 extension anymore, but i will get to that in detail in a seperate thread.)



The Ultimate build is already done (its 3-Click too) and its working great. Cant tell you how pleased i am to see that it works so well because this is not just an update this time, this actually changes the whole substructure to what it should be, which in turn means a great leap forward to the whole VPinball thing at large. (At least in my opinion.) A release thread will follow later, i worked on this for nearly 20 hours nonstop, compiling, fixing, compiling, fixing, straight through the night, so i really have to take a nap now. You may gladly post a line or two in the meantime though,...i will be back in a couple of hours,...

Thank you, Phoenixx - I'm really looking forward to your release of this
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  #43  
Old 08-23-2009, 11:15 AM
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whew! I am glad you two sysops have settled your differences. I thought I'd have to find two dueling pistols and let you two go at it! Man it got heated there for a while. ok Phoenix, I am thrilled that you mentioned that the tables would be able to autorun WITHOUT running into problems. That is one beef I always had. My vp8's always autoran, but for the vp9's to work I had to load up vp9 and manually load and open then play each vp9 table. I don't have that many vp9'ws so to change the ext, is no prob for me. Others may bitch, but if I can have ALL my table autorun it would help out alot! so thanks for taking the time and effort to make this.
noah< I'm not sure if you are still making the installer too, if you are kudos to you too, for all the hard work, if you are letting phoenix use his on your site than gratz on settling your differences (without burying a hatchet in each others backs)
NOW, hopefully we CAN all just get along...
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  #44  
Old 08-30-2009, 11:49 PM
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Any news on when VIP Ultimate will be released?

BJJB
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  #45  
Old 09-03-2009, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faralos View Post
and another is better ball physics, bigger ball, see through ramps and that ever present 'can't create off-screen z-surface', crash to desktop bug. ok aside from that, vp9 is a good program!
I ran into the 'Can't create off-screen object' error a while back, directly after manually editing some of the settings in my video card. (BFG Geforce 7300GT)

Turns out, in regards to VP8, if you lower the Antialiasing to a value lower than 4X it causes that error. VP9 didn't have a problem with it.

I know it's not the same error you mentioned, but reading the post made me think of it.
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  #46  
Old 09-10-2009, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjb View Post
Any news on when VIP Ultimate will be released?

BJJB
If all goes according to plan the new dual-setup package will be released during next week,...
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  #47  
Old 09-11-2009, 12:09 AM
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It's good to hear that you will be releasing this soon - I'm curious to "look under the hood" to see how you were able to use 2 registry keys, one for VP9 and one for VP8.

I apologize for not making any suggestions (remembering that you asked for suggestions), but I really wanted to see how this package works before making any suggestions, and I felt that I didn't know enough about your design to make a suggestion.

I recently bought a new computer based partially on your suggestions and other folks on what was needed to properly run VP in another thread (although I decided on the i7 950 for the processor - probably a lot more power than I need, but my geek jones just got the best of me ), looking forward to running VP9 and VP8 without changing out executables.

Spent some time trying to make my own software to pre-load the registry, copy the proper VP exe version (for VP6, 8, and 9), and set the screen environments using an XML file which mapped a table name to a VP version, but I was having some DMD display trouble that I attributed to running a VP8 after a VP9 table - the 2 registry settings should tell me a lot.

Thanx again for your hard work and advice...

BJJB (short for Billy Joe Jim Bob)
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  #48  
Old 09-11-2009, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjb View Post
...the 2 registry settings should tell me a lot.
Im afraid they wont...at least not more than you know already.

Because the only change in this area is that VP9 gets its own subkey so that neither VP version can interfere with the settings of the other anymore.

(Currently VP8 and VP9 are constantly overwriting each others settings. VP9 also adds an extra subkey to the shared key which VP8 doesnt know. With individual keys this will be avoided in the future.)
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  #49  
Old 09-11-2009, 06:13 PM
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No wonder I've had issues. Overwriting settings can cause headaches.
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  #50  
Old 09-12-2009, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixx View Post
Currently VP8 and VP9 are constantly overwriting each others settings.
I noticed that VP9 sets the resolution different than VP8 does. It's not really a problem here for me, but it does seem to be a settings bug that needs to be fixed. I'll be sure to check out your installer when it's released. Thanks
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  #51  
Old 09-12-2009, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Liteuser. View Post
I'll be sure to check out your installer when it's released.
Cool, i can use the feedback.

Since im currently experimenting with a whole new (much better) installer setup it will be a little while longer until its released, (meaning it wont be this weekend after all), but since this new format has many advantages (and opens up possibilities for many more cool things) it will definitely be worth the waiting,...

(Providing of course i wont run into any unsolvable issues in which case i would have to stick with the old-and-proven way,...)
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  #52  
Old 09-14-2009, 10:52 AM
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Well Phoenixx if you need testers i have two virgin XP+sp3 systems (just formatted) and a fresh windows7 install set up on a partition of a third systems.
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  #53  
Old 09-19-2009, 12:29 PM
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Pheonixx I can no longer run VP on my laptop any longer. I can load a table but once I hit play it crashes. Any ideas? Also, I would love to test the new VIP. Winxp sp3 and Windows 7 64bit. Thanks!
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  #54  
Old 09-19-2009, 10:11 PM
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Sorry mesa, but there are so many possible causes that i dont know what to suggest. Did you try installing the latest mainboard/soundcard/graphicscard drivers and reinstalling the VIP? Drivers are often the cause for odd program behaviour.

As for your offer to betatest; thanks, it would be good to have someone test it on a 64bit machine so i will put you down for testing,...
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:18 PM
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Thanks for the response Pheonixx. I figured it out. I reinstalled Visual Basic Script from microsoft. It must have been a scripting issue.

I would be more than happy to beta test the installer on my 64bit machines. Your current one works fine!
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  #56  
Old 10-01-2009, 05:37 AM
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Hey Phoenixx,

I haven't posted at PN for a long time (very busy times, sorry guys) but I've been happy enough with my small, handpicked selection of about 30 tables when I have found the time to play any of them. And that's not forgetting your Visual_Install_Pack_8.1_2.01 either. If it wasn't for that I probably would've given up on Visual Pinball back then before I could even get started with it. Obviously, without the VIP it can all seem too difficult for a newb. Then what use to newbs are the great works of table authors if they can't figure out the program that runs them?

I hadn't checked any author's sites for updates of my fave tables for a while either, until today that is (heh... 2 weeks break coming up : P). Then I saw that JPSalas is redoing some tables in VP9, and my first thought was, "Hmmm... I wonder if Phoenixx is gonna be doing some kinda new VIP for VP9 or something?"

Now here I find you've been hard at work on a VIP Ultimate to put VP8 and VP9 in one! Thanks Phoenixx for helping make life easier for us non-expert VP types. I'm sure that I speak for many others like myself who greatly appreciate your efforts to spread the pinball fun around.

You make it happen for us! : )
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:07 PM
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Thanks for the kind words, it is rare that i get to read such appreciative posts.

As for the new pack; wont be long now, i just need to get my PC in order (need to fresh install) and then i will send out betas to the volunteer testers. If they dont find anything major (according to my own tests it works 100% flawlessly) i will release it for everyone to enjoy shortly thereafter.

And there will be a couple of nice (unique) surprises,...
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Old 10-02-2009, 12:48 PM
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Oh cool, I like surprises!

Respect to all the beta testers for their time, too. Looking forward to the official release.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:02 PM
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It's been quite a while since the last post... any news (hopefully)? =)
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:42 PM
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Sorry people, ive been terribly busy with other things since autumn 09 and i just got back from a 3 week vacation.

As for the new pack; its as good as done. The basics are all finished, tested and working, just a couple of things i need to adjust and of course the latest VP and the new VPM will have to be implemented as well. If all goes according to plan then it should be online in a couple of weeks at most.

The best new feature by the way (besides full UAC awareness) is definitely the componentized setup. This lets you choose exactly what parts you want to install and the installer will then only install the files, folders and registry entries needed for that component.

Example:

You choose to install only VP8. In that case the installer will only create the default VP folders plus a VP8 Tables folder and register .vpt files with VP8. No VP9 or VPM related stuff will be put on your PC.

If on the other hand you choose to install VP8 and VPM then the installer will do the above, plus create all the necessary VPM folders and registry entries for VPM. The same goes for adding VP9.

And the great thing is you can install and uninstall all components without affecting the others. Its all 100% independent from each other, which means you can add and remove whatever you want whenever you want. The rest will work as before.

There are of course lots of other things but more about that in the release thread...
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