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  #1  
Old 02-19-2019, 10:10 AM
michael2468 michael2468 is offline
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Default 1969 Williams Expo help

Stepper unit is clean and free. I cleaned and adjusted ball index relay, I cleaned and adjusted outhole relay , I cleaned and adjusted most the relays in bottom of cabinet and I probably should not have done that but I was so frustrated I couldn't help myself. I undid the two screws to the leaf switch stack on score motor and cleaned those switches also. Now the problem:
push start button and game resets and ball goes to shooter lane
start playing 1st ball and machine skips to 2nd ball sometimes 3rd sometime score resets sometime goes to game over. What have I done!!! I do not have schematics nor can I read them very well. I can do most everything else. Thank You in advance for your help
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  #2  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:43 PM
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When you unscrewed the score motor stack switch to clean it and then screwed it back in place a wire connection might be touching or shorting out to another connection. To inspect this the removal of the inside mechanical board may be necessary. The schematic is available from the pinball database for download or printout. You can also check the ball count unit end of stroke switch for being closed, or change the number match feature to off to see if that changes anything.
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:24 PM
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I checked score motor don't see any wires touching. eos switch is closed. Ball count is ok now. It was the switch that shoots ball out. it was gap to close and it would touch during game and shoot next ball. Only problem I have is score resets during game.
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:18 PM
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Do you mean the game completely resets while youíre playing? Is the gap on the replay button switch okay?
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:27 PM
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score goes back to zero ball count continues
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:51 AM
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Default Score resets after each ball drain

Game resets ok. 1st ball in play after it drains score resets and ball count goes to 2nd ball as if nothing happened. play 2nd ball and when that ball drains score again goes to zero. game plays and scores fine its just the reset of the score after each ball. Please help not sure where to look.
1969 Williams Expo
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  #7  
Old 02-22-2019, 06:50 AM
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Lift up and support playfield. Start new game. Manually push on some targets to score some points. Push and hold on the drain (outhole switch) and watch to see if the reset and/ or score reset relays pull in and release hold on the outhole switch until the outhole kicker solenoid fires. Post results.
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  #8  
Old 02-22-2019, 01:07 PM
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start game and I put points on game , held down drain and the kicker went off immediately, when I let the drain up reset relay kicks in and score goes to zero
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Old 02-22-2019, 07:44 PM
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With this info score motor operation is needed to be understood. The score motor has 7 cams to do certain functions. The first cam closest to the motor is the index cam. The next five cams are numbered 1-5 and the last cam is the impulse cam. The score motor operates on a 180 degree cycle to complete its functions. At zero degrees the index cam follower will be in the cam low position. As the motor starts turning the cams the index cam goes to its high position. The number 1 cam will be the next cam to go low. Numbers 2 thru 5 cams will each go low in sequence until the 180 degrees is completed and index cam goes low to complete the sequence. The last cam is the impulse cam and has 5 high spots on it. This cam is used for multiple scores and score reel resets. This cam will pulse 5 times for each 180 degree cycle.
The next test is similar to the last test. With the playfield lifted up and supported, start a new game. Push in ball index relay, it should stay energized. Next move the score motor service switch to off. Itís a jack and pin on or near the motor. Next push and release the drain switch, the outhole relay should pull in and stay energized. Next manually turn the index cam slowly in a clockwise rotation. List and post the following operations as you are turning the cam. Outhole solenoid fires, ball index relay opens, outhole relay opens, reset relay pulls in, Ball count unit advances. Post results in relation to what happens on each cam.
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Old 02-23-2019, 08:36 AM
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ok start game, push in ball index relay and it does stay energized, service switch to off, pushed and released drain switch and the outhole relay pulls in and energized, uppost relay under playfield making a lot of noise, as I slowly turn score motor I hear clicking sounds in the back box 4 total, ball count advances, the big reset unit that is powered by the 115 volt coil attempts to reset making a lot of noise, ball index relay opens, outhole relay opens all goes quit, then back to home position. I did this over and over and I think the info I got is correct.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:31 PM
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Did the reset relay or score reset relay pull in during your tests?
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Old 02-23-2019, 05:04 PM
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yes sorry reset relay kicks on when outhole relay goes out
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Old 02-23-2019, 10:37 PM
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At what part of the 180 degrees cam rotation does the outhole relay release? Repeat the test, but this time manually advance the player 1 score reels off of zero before you push and release the drain switch. You said you heard clicking the head. I think it was relays trying to reset the score reels. Do the score reels click during the 180 degree test?
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Old 02-24-2019, 11:05 AM
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as I slowly turn motor the click sound is it changing from player 1 and 2. the index cam gets almost to the next notch and that is where the outhole relay releases about 1/2 inch from notch. as I continue turning the score motor the score wheels reset and complete to the next notch.
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Old 02-24-2019, 11:44 AM
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.
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  #16  
Old 02-24-2019, 12:02 PM
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I think part of the problem is the score motor index cam switch stack. Is this the stack you removed the screws to clean the switches? The top 2 switches are 3 blade make/ brake switches and cannot interfere with each other also check the top 6 wire connections that they are not touching each other. There also might be a problem with the reset relay switch stack. The NO(normally open) switch closest to the coil with the blue/brown and blue/white wires needs to be checked. Pics of the index cam switch stack and the reset relay stack can be posted for additional help.
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Old 02-24-2019, 01:54 PM
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I removed the two screws as seen in the top view of switch stack. the switches all stay together as a unit. I think they only mount one way so by removing them I don't think it screwed anything up but not sure if there is a special way to mount and unmount. attached is pictures requested. I really appreciate all your help and Thank You very much. Machine is driving me nuts. I'm so close.
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  #18  
Old 02-24-2019, 05:02 PM
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Thank you for the pics. As you can see in the 3rd pic where the index cam is on itís high spot the shorter blades under the long blades are tensioned too high and not releasing the lower part of the switch allowing all 3 of the blades to make contact. Proper adjustment of the shorter blades should be in a level position. To adjust blades a straight screwdriver can be used pushing down slightly on the blade where the blade attaches to the stack. A better tool to use is called a blade adjustment or contact adjustment tool available from Marco specialties or pinball resource. I also use a metal points file to clean switch contacts on EM machines also available from both vendors. Cleaning switch contacts and adjusting switch blades should always done with the machine unplugged. After adjusting blades on the score motor with service adjustment off turn the cam from low to high positions and watch for proper opening and closing of switch contacts. When switch contacts close there should be a slight overtravel. This wiping of the contacts helps keep the contacts clean.
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Old 02-24-2019, 07:05 PM
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can the switch stack be removed by undoing top two screws and adjusted? I have the proper tools
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:06 PM
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I wouldnít advise of removing the index cam switch stack screws. Since itís the end stack, adjustments should be easy.
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:49 AM
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understood. I do not have schematic for this machine I have been looking at the one from IPDB but I can't see the switch status for the index cam. What state are the switches supposed to be in at the home position and what position when they travel? I already adjusted the short blades to a somewhat level position and fired up the machine to try it with no success. Where can I get a schematic? again Thanks for the help.
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Old 02-25-2019, 07:01 AM
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The pinball database schematic does show a pic of the score motor cams and stack switches. Itís in the lower left. It shows the index cam in its home position. Schematicís and manuals are usually available from pinball resource. He is best source for gottlieb info also. If a manual is available it will have a lot info that wonít be found on a schematic.
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Old 02-25-2019, 10:21 AM
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ok I have adjusted and cleaned the switches in index cam. I have looked at all switches in the score motor and do not see any problems. I checked again and again cleaned and cleaned and machine still resets score after ball drain. where do I go from here I'm lost.
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  #24  
Old 02-25-2019, 12:29 PM
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Post a pic of the game over relay. Unsolder the blue/white wires from the switch on the game over relay. Retest procedure to see if the reset relay pulls in. Post results.
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Old 02-26-2019, 07:53 AM
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Still looking for blue/white wires. Here are some pictures. very tough getting in there. Am I looking for more than one wire?
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  #26  
Old 02-26-2019, 10:26 AM
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Thank you for the pics. It’s the 4th and last pics that show the most promise. Of the 2 stacks the end stack looks ok. It’s the inner stack that looks like where the problem is. The pic shows that the middle switch looks closed when it should be open. The last pic looks like it shows a single blue/white wire connected to the switch. First inspect the wire connections on both stacks for connections touching. Next slip a small piece of paper in between the contacts of the suspect switch. Unsoldering the wire is not necessary. With the score motor service switch to on, retest the procedure. Regap the short blade so the switch opens in the upper latched position and closes in its tripped lower position. Post results.

Last edited by pinballdaveh; 02-26-2019 at 10:34 AM.
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  #27  
Old 02-26-2019, 02:11 PM
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inner switch you say is ok latched which is open, close, close. the outer I think what you might be seeing is the make break switch latched is open, open, close, close. I tried anyway making it open still resets score after ball drain
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Old 02-26-2019, 02:47 PM
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In the 4th pic the switch is just across from the actuating insulated pin. It looks closed. Did you find the blue/white wire?
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Old 02-27-2019, 09:40 AM
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I have to leave for Baltimore today will be back end of next week and I will continue this repair. Thank you for all your help.
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