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  #1  
Old 03-02-2019, 04:34 PM
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Default 20 Years ago, a little pinball site was born

March 3, 1999. Wow.

20 years ago, shivaSite became a pinball website. Hard to believe it was that long, and everything has changed so much since then. At that time, the industry was pretty much dead, there was no VP,or VPinmame, or ipdb. I founded the site because I just didn't want pinball to die, and never did I ever dream that things would turn around the way things have.

All I had was a small little program called wpcmame, and absolutely no skills. I was able to find the initial wpc roms, ended up working with Randy, watched the community explode (literally several times) and now see 2 strong editors, a commercial industry that is thriving, and new blood moving into the game because it's a lot more exciting than shooting a bunch of little dots on a screen.

Though shivaSite is long gone, it still exists, at least in the past. A lot of the content from shivaSite ended up forming the base of IPDB when it restarted. I still see old resources floating around, and that makes me so happy that people still use them. It was always about the game itself, and the love we all have for the game that is the important thing, the reason for being.

But the past is over, it's time to continue to move towards the future, to strike new ground. VR, holograms, lord knows what is coming. A exciting future awaits, and I for one can't wait.

Thank you all for the wonderful memories.
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Old 03-03-2019, 01:16 AM
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So, The Wayback Machine has Shivasite.com records. The earliest snapshot is from 2002: https://web.archive.org/web/20020602...shivasite.com/

There's actually a snapshot from the year before, but it looks like the site wasn't set up at that moment at that particular URL. Did you change addresses at some point?

Anyway, thanks for all your contributions, Shiva. Pinball is not a burning interest of mine at the moment (not many machines near me, etc), but it truly is impressive-- seeing people with such long-time passion and then again, enthusiasm for the new & future state of the art.

Rock on.

Last edited by Ike Savage; 03-03-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:35 AM
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Through the early founders, Shiva and Randy, plus all the other people that have contributed so much to the hobby [and still do] I am so grateful.


I have no skills in building, damn, I even suck at playing!, but have thoroughly enjoyed the hobby through the last 15 years at least.



The older forums like VPFF and VPF to name a few .... when I think about how it started and where it is now ... it's been an exponential development!
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Old 03-04-2019, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elton View Post
The older forums like VPFF and VPF to name a few .... when I think about how it started and where it is now ... it's been an exponential development!
I thought it was a punk move when the founder of the new VPF ripped off the old forum's name, but aside from that, it really does seem like that site's a major advance over the old one.

Of course it certainly helped when Randy got off his arse and let the project go open source. Problem with the old site is that it kind of had both arms tied behind it at times. Randy and AJ both had some impressive disappearing acts going on for most of VPF.com's run.
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Old 03-04-2019, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ike Savage View Post
I thought it was a punk move when the founder of the new VPF ripped off the old forum's name, but aside from that, it really does seem like that site's a major advance over the old one.

Of course it certainly helped when Randy got off his arse and let the project go open source. Problem with the old site is that it kind of had both arms tied behind it at times. Randy and AJ both had some impressive disappearing acts going on for most of VPF.com's run.



Yes it wasn't Paul's finest move in naming the site the same as the old one. It certainly split many folk some never to return to the hobby. But given the major arguments between many a contributor at the time, I think most would be against whatever it was called ... just to pick a fight. Maybe that's overly harsh but that's the way I saw it.


Then the new site went 'commercial' and further hell breaks out. I think many of the 'snowflakes' on that site, at that time, would object to just about anything, by anybody, for whatever reason. I did fall out with one contributor over the most ridiculous thing and that sort of sealed it for me. Time to re-evaluate who I spend my time with and seriously reduce my time there. Also the rules in chat ... let's not go there! I don't remember specifically what and personally don't care! Pinball Nirvana has always been the coolest place, with friendlier people ... not many fall out. But lower traffic.


The BBB chat that I transferred to and frequented more often [but less so now] run by Rascal is great. Time restrictions prevent me from going there too regularly; plus I'm rather tired of an evening and it's hard work. The time differences between the UK and US does not help.


The gang that are there are great and super helpful and funny [as your mood takes]. In fact it was Rawd that provided me with a bundle of VPX that got me started again some months ago.


Anyway, enough said for now.



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Old 03-04-2019, 10:41 PM
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Interesting comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elton View Post
Yes it wasn't Paul's finest move in naming the site the same as the old one. It certainly split many folk some never to return to the hobby. But given the major arguments between many a contributor at the time, I think most would be against whatever it was called ... just to pick a fight. Maybe that's overly harsh but that's the way I saw it.
I don't think anybody really cared what the guy named it, honestly. I can recall a bunch of other VP-related sites going up across the years (including this one), and no issue at all with their names amongst the members.

What made VPF.org different from the rest is that it clearly intended to latch on to the reputation and general goodwill towards the original. And as it did wind up going commercial (isn't that right?), the whole thing was pretty much just a case of following the money, no different than any business grabbing another business' name whenever it can get away with it. So fair play to that. AJ snoozed, essentially.

Still, I can agree with you that having a petty fight over the name certainly -sounds- like the kind of thing we might have done. :P

Quote:
Then the new site went 'commercial' and further hell breaks out. I think many of the 'snowflakes' on that site, at that time, would object to just about anything, by anybody, for whatever reason. I did fall out with one contributor over the most ridiculous thing and that sort of sealed it for me. Time to re-evaluate who I spend my time with and seriously reduce my time there. Also the rules in chat ... let's not go there! I don't remember specifically what and personally don't care! Pinball Nirvana has always been the coolest place, with friendlier people ... not many fall out. But lower traffic....
Hmm, sorry to hear that.

But that also reminds me that the kind of crowd these sites attract is not necessarily the most mature and well-rounded. Pinball is a wonderful game, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a wonderful crowd. The talented people who advanced it and perfected it across the years are a far cry from some entitled shmoe who walks by and drops in a coin. And that extends pretty directly to the emulation scene, I think. Really, it's probably even worse in that respect.

Wellsir, I've done my best to turn what should be a happy, celebratory thread in to a grouchy-bitchy one. Mission accomplished? D:
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Old 03-05-2019, 05:06 AM
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Wellsir, I've done my best to turn what should be a happy, celebratory thread in to a grouchy-bitchy one. Mission accomplished? D:



I don't see it like that. It was an observatory note of the early days.


Now, it's far more professional and well alive from a time when people were fighting to keep their hobby starting.


But things are turning slightly ... believe Gottlieb are pulling their ROMS ... as manufacturers [whether current or not] trying to get their commercial rights back.



I had hoped others would join in this thread .. but alas no. Where is SteveOz these days?
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Old 03-05-2019, 01:49 PM
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Ah, I hadn't heard about Gottlieb doing that. But checking the IPDB just now...
Quote:
Why do the Gottlieb files all say Availability limited by copyright?

To protect their copyrights and trademarks and therefore protect the income of their licensees, Gottlieb Development LLC has required that we remove all Gottlieb manuals and ROMs from the site (even though in our opinion this just makes it harder for owners to determine part numbers needed to order licensed parts).

Gottlieb manuals, ROMS, and other parts are available from several officially licensed manufacturers:

Steve Young's 'The Pinball Resource' is a source for paper Gottlieb manuals and other mechanical parts.

John Robertson's 'Flippers.com' is a source for Gottlieb EPROMs, PROMs, PALs, 6530 replacements, and other parts for Electromechanical and Solid State games.

A list of additional licensed manufacturers can be found at Mondial International Corporation.
Yeah, sure does look like a step backwards. Hopefully word gets around to machine owners that they can still grab digital manuals and ROMs at alternate places online.

.

I think Stevoz kind of faded out a year or two ago. Not sure what the deal with him is. Also, the last of the regulars and semi-regulars pretty much fled over the aftermath of Trump getting elected. Plus, Sleepy passed away.

Nowadays this forums is pretty much just people posting problems with real life or emulated machines, and "pinballdaveh" doing a wizbang job of solving the real life issues, and myself struggling along to solve the emulation problems. My problem is that I barely touch the emulators anymore, so I usually have to figure it all out on the fly...
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:06 PM
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Thank You shiva, I'm also a early Visual Pinball enthusiast and think I discovered it around 1999, remember the msn forums? I believe these were used prior to the real vpf being born.


Almost time to break out the pinball birthday cake for Pinball Nirvana from this old thread:
Pinball Nirvana Is 13 Years Old! Pinball Nirvana Is 13 Years Old!
Pinball Nirvana will be a sweet sixteen on April 1st and we are going to make it, just paid for another 2 years in February.


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Old 03-07-2019, 03:22 PM
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Yes Jon, we have you to thank for PN and we are grateful even if at times it looks like we aren't.



Reading the linked thread, I wonder what became of tiltjlp ?
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:15 PM
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Reading the linked thread, I wonder what became of tiltjlp ?
I looked in to that a bit a couple years ago and got the impression John had likely passed away. Not 100%, but a logical guess based on his age, poor health, apartment situation, and the fact that he disappeared from his other online haunts as well, like the tobacco & writing forums.

It's always possible that he's in some kind of assisted living situation, then again that would still most likely allow him an internet presence. Or possibly he's no longer cognizant enough to do so. But also, he was in very tight shape economically, so I'm not sure what kind of assisted living he would have been able to manage.

Well, now I feel rather shitty for laying that all out. But overall, I'd still tend to guess that he eventually passed away.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:54 AM
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Thanks for the info Nic ... don't feel shitty, you've no need to.

Now that you've written that, I sort of recall reading something similar a few years ago. It was probably from you.


John was a stalwart of the site and despite not sharing much in common with him, he was, with Jon, 'Pinball Nirvana'.
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