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  #31  
Old 04-23-2013, 07:45 PM
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bah... busy the last couple days.
as for the statement "more sites are better"... well, that's true to an extent but also untrue past a certain point. like a dilution.

point is, why didn't you guys try to give this place a good hard shot when dissent came to town? or in the case of originals, the aussie guys' site? and maybe one or two other old-timey VP sites that were struggling for survival? i mean, in case you hadn't heard, PN is the longest-serving VP site in the scene.

john belushi said but NOOOOOOOOO.......!

and this is the thing that kills me about you new guys to the scene-- you eventually find fights to make with AJ, jon, paul, ringo... whoever. ALWAYS. then a tiny fraction of you go off and start another fringe site and groove that old "mo sites iz betta" stuff.

well hey, dudes-- more sites WAS better when AJ's was the only game in town and shiva's was up, down, and around. the scene DESPERATELY needed more sites at that point. and that was then and this is now.

you guys have a cool chatroom and i always enjoyed dropping by there... but YOU COULD have chosen to work with other people in the scene who already needed a smidgen of faith, hope and support. i mean, the VP scene didn't blossom in to form just because you came around-- it's been kickin' it since 2000-2001. but NOW you're bringing something NEW to the equation like a gospel on the mount?

what if that same notorious bearded-dude said to you that it was actually ego, control, cliques and comfort zones more than 'selfless mahatma ghandi-types trying to offer themselves to a community in need' that fueled those motivations? what material are your billy joel houses made of, anyway?


just a random thought or two!
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  #32  
Old 04-23-2013, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockman View Post
I didn't even know you had a family. Who is it that you are telling people I threatened ? Wife and kids? This is the second time I have heard this. What was it that I said?

About the tables. There are still three, not one, but I have a copy of what I needed now, so don't worry about them. It was never about the tables anyway, but the way they, besides the two I put up, were put up there and the fact that you had the gull to tell anyone that they should ask permission. They should of course. You know where this is going.

About the last sentence I think you are on track but still missing the point. People that don't know you probably do think you are a backstabber, liar, etc., a lot of people (walking and quacking ducks you understand). People that know you, whether they have the fortitude to say so or not, know it. ALL of them.

New people have to be very careful around you, and they can get that from you, they don't have to 'run with' anything said to them. But if they are ignorant of such things, then I for one am glad to help.

All the black that was kicked out was kicked out by a pot. The blackest pot of all imo.
Well, thanks Phil. That's very kind of you to say. It makes me realize that you, too, are part of the problem, not the solution. Anyone who actually knows me knows I'm nothing like that. Perception is reality, though, right? Not.

Yes, you threatened me and my family, but I don't care enough to sift through the 200+ emails we exchanged trying to come to some amicable level of understanding so you could return. Not sure how that level of patience could be construed as anything but a positive.

Touching on the whole '[I'm] ban-happy and delete anything I don't agree with' ... I looked through my own logs, and since November, I've deleted four topics that I wasn't asked to delete. Two regarding the FP hack and two in Czech.

I've banned two members during that time. Since I can see what was downloaded and by whom, I can see in near-perfect chronological order backglasses being downloaded and then subsequently uploaded 12-14 hours apart. Simple enough to see what's going on. Now, we have an exemplary contributor no longer wanting to contribute after his many, many hours of contributions have been pillaged without permission or adequate credit.

Finally, to cover your accusation that we 'stole' anything, destruk uploaded tables he was involved in, which covers about 90% of VP8, and he asked TAB to help. Anyone who arrived at VPF who is credited for those tables was given complete control over those downloads, as I had the ability to change the uploader to the respective author. Not a single returning member had any issue with us preserving what would surely had been lost had we not picked up the dropped ball.

I even contacted Chris Lamantia, Joe Entropy, and many others who told me it was great we are carrying on, but they had other things going on in life. They were just fine with rehosting their tables.

If there's one thing I'm going to take from this, it's that people are willing to go to great lengths and compromise their integrity (if applicable) to try to convince people I'm something I'm not to further their own ends. Me? I prefer to support virtual pinball, help anyone and everyone I can with support, resources, connections, etc, and sleep well at night knowing I'm not the monster these people fabricated.

Thanks for reading, and have a great night.
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  #33  
Old 04-23-2013, 09:35 PM
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destruk had nothing to do with POTO or MMPAC he certainly had no right to upload them anywhere and whatever anyone feels about their own work has nothing to do with it. You were asked to remove them Paul and when you did not you became a thief as well. So that is a lie. Flagging them is not removing them.

You said I had 6 months and I did not e-mail you a single time. Nor did I post anything against your site, so that is a lie.

You won't retrieve a post, but you would tell people it exists. And you accuse others of being unfair to you. I don't know if there is a word for that. There are many, but not one that does that act justice. Evil is probably the closest. but it's possible to be evil and honest about that.

This is not great lengths. It's just a conversation on a issue. I have no end to further. I not only do not want to, but I would never be a member of vpforums.org ever again.

I happen to not think you are as great as think you are.

You could not have transferred the database after the site went down. This had to be done before. And you are just in the above post saying again that permission not being retrieved is the reason for the issue of this thread. It's OK for you though why? because it was a good thing in your case, but a bad thing in this case. It's obvious, even not knowing the case fully that the real issue is location location location.

These people. The monster these people created. Take you and your buddies away from the mirror and go buy them a beer. You owe them that.
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  #34  
Old 04-23-2013, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah Fentz View Post
As for responding to all the drama ... It's just that ... drama. People who have never had any dealings with me calling me a backstabber, liar, etc, and people who take what their told and run with it. Weak. I have better things to do.


Paul, you and I have never had differences but, I would like some answers.

1: Who, specifically, is claiming Wildman stole their work?
2: What proof do they have?
3: Why would you believe the accuser(s) over Wildman before even asking him about it?
4: Why was Wildman banned before being given a chance to respond to these absurd claims?
5: Why was Wildman offered to be "unbanned" if he started uploading his hard work there? If it were truly plagiarized, why would you offer to host it?

You know that us hardcore chatters (you know who we all are), are like family. We don't lie to each other, ever. If we did, the group would ostracize us to the point we would never hang out there.
And while I was not there, I do know that he did have your call on speakerphone for the chat room to hear.

C'mon man, what the hell is going on here?
Here is your chance to tell your side of things regarding the latest incident with Wildman.
What is between you and Shockman is none of my concern.
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  #35  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:07 PM
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It all boils down to just one thing. What happens when there is a difference of opinion, or a conflict. Is the person in power always right? With a weak person, regardless of position it ends with the power, and with a strong person it does not, regardless of the position.

It's not disputing his entitlement to be as he is. It's weighing and measuring.

I have weighed his position and at time measured his reaction with a lie. You will read supporting evidence if it exists. You will read only that it exists if it does not.

Last edited by Shockman; 04-24-2013 at 07:55 AM.
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  #36  
Old 04-24-2013, 02:31 AM
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Something I don't get. How are we "furthering our own ends"? It would have been best for all had this never happened, and we all went our separate ways. Crap like this just stirs the pot. I don't have all the facts, nor did I report that I did. I can't speak for Wildman, nor should I. From my contact with Wildman, he is a rude, crude, dude, but I've always known him to be honest. That's what I know. The other thing that stinks here is if Wildman uploads content- however stolen, he's ok? If I remember correctly, when that "Mike" guy took my templates, and put his name on them, while changing a few lines and re-arranging my subs, he got a pm from you, and they were taken down.
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  #37  
Old 04-25-2013, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey101 View Post
Paul, you and I have never had differences but, I would like some answers.

1: Who, specifically, is claiming Wildman stole their work?
The who isn't important. It's the fact that it happened.
Quote:
2: What proof do they have?
As I've already explained in a previous post, I have logs showing in near-perfect, chronological order that the backglasses uploaded to VPU were downloaded 12 or so hours prior from VPF. What Wildman fails to realize is it's not the backglass images that are the concern here. It's the hours and hours spent researching and testing the bulb placements, intensities, and numbers that have been ripped without permission. Backglasses have become just as integral to this hobby as tables, and by doing this, he is no better than someone blatantly ripping a JP table and posting it as his own with new images or the guy who ripped Itchigo's templates. They should be removed from any community-respecting site.

Quote:
3: Why would you believe the accuser(s) over Wildman before even asking him about it?
The irrefutable evidence in the logs.

Quote:
4: Why was Wildman banned before being given a chance to respond to these absurd claims?
See #3

Quote:
5: Why was Wildman offered to be "unbanned" if he started uploading his hard work there? If it were truly plagiarized, why would you offer to host it?
He wasn't. That's a flat-out lie. If there is any truth to having others listening in on the conversation, then they know that, too. You can't even upload while banned, so how much sense does that statement even make?

I told him that even if he had permission, taking from the community and posting elsewhere without giving back is inappropriate. We are a community, not a resource.

I also never set the ultimatum. I unbanned him the minute he got off the phone, since he told me he DID have permission. Of course, I later discovered that was a flat out lie, as well, so his ban was resumed. He never even asked, he just took. Here, Wildman, you should get with this guy and hang out ... http://tinyurl.com/cqzoaz3 ... perfect match.

Quote:
You know that us hardcore chatters (you know who we all are), are like family. We don't lie to each other, ever. If we did, the group would ostracize us to the point we would never hang out there.
And while I was not there, I do know that he did have your call on speakerphone for the chat room to hear.
I think you should really think about what you just said. Dazz is nothing BUT a liar, thief, and manipulator with absolutely no respect for the community, and Wildman clearly lied about having permission. So, if you think they'll lie to others, but not you, you're naive. Dazz is even ripping images that I personally created for VPF! ... I have the PSD to prove it, if I must.

Let's review what Dazz and company have done so far to get VPU started and see just how honorable you really believe they are ...

Dazz totally and utterly disrespected Randy by dropping into our chat with him. Everything was going great, we were all having a good time, then BAM, it came to a screeching halt when 'Mickey Fucking Mouse' dropped in and out so fast, it could be nothing but intentional. MAJOR disrespect to Randy!

When I viewed who was online, he was one listed in the online list. Since he was already stirring trouble, I reviewed the access logs which clearly showed him viewing the 'Randy's in Chat Now' topic, then accessing chat. It was certainly a premeditated act with malicious intent. To this day, I'm sure he'll still tell you it was an accident.

After opening the site, Dazz decided the SAM code got out by an anonymous poster, so let's host it, it's out anyway. WRONG. The VPM team is EXTREMELY unhappy about this, and it already has had an effect on what they do and release in the future. We were going to get approval to release it PROPERLY, and now they really have no interest in pursuing it or other VPM development. There's more that could be done and released, but we can now kiss that goodbye. Not to mention it could get them into some legal hot water. MAJOR disrespect to the VPM team!

Later, they decide it's a good idea to host the hacked version of Future Pinball. The program is still under copyright and under license by a third party. What the hell is that?! MAJOR disrespect to Chris Leathley!

That's the ultimate trifecta of disrespect! Without the creators of VP, FP, and VPM, we wouldn't even have this hobby, and they immediately shit on all of them in the opening months!!

Now, knowing full well Wildman had absolutely no permission to, for all intents and purposes, MOD existing backglasses, they are happy to host those, as well. Absolutely no integrity whatsoever. Being so dead set to 'take VPF down', as Dazz has said is his mission, it seems he'll do and say just about anything toward that end, including not giving a damn about where the content he hosts came from. How's that for honor?

Yeah, he'd NEVER lie to you, right? Think again.

Quote:
C'mon man, what the hell is going on here?
Here is your chance to tell your side of things regarding the latest incident with Wildman.
What is between you and Shockman is none of my concern.
I find the entire situation despicable, deplorable, and out and out disrespectful to anyone and everyone who has ever contributed to this scene. How you, Al, and others can live with yourselves being involved with that is a mystery. When we were all hanging out, you guys showed integrity and would have immediately pounced on someone who did these things. I guess after ripping chat, you have all concluded that what's right and wrong for the community isn't really relevant anymore as long as your thirst for vengeance is satiated by hurting me, regardless of how much you're shitting on the community doing it? Without respect for our members that freely contribute to the scene, we will have nothing. It's been proven time and time again with some of our greatest contributors leaving the scene because of disrespectful people like this, and another one just left.

Since I'm addressing things tonight, why not go a little further with some of the other things I've been accused of, shall we?

Let's see ...

I'm taking advantage of the community by offering VirtuaPin products ... FALSE.

When I started VirtuaPin, you could find but one builder of cabinets out there, and he was asking $8K + for a cabinet! This was one of my main motivations, and I brought mine out for $4995! I wanted to promote the hobby and enable those who wanted a cab to have one. If I were to share with you the BOM on these units, you'd realize I must be doing it because I love it. I make enough to pay the bills and put food on the table, and it's a LOT of work.

By creating VirtuaPin, I've also saved our members thousands of dollars by not just offering the best prices you're going to find, but by also being able to order it all in one place. I worked very hard to get the prices I get to forward the savings onto our members.

It's all about the Benjamins ... FALSE.

Anyone who has ever done business with me knows this isn't true. I give things away all the time. I have to make a living, and I do this 80+ hours weekly between VirtuaPin and VPF. If working really hard and doing more than mousing around the internet falsely judging people is being all about the Benjamins, then I think it's high time someone reconsiders their goals in life.

My cabinet business has hindered development of the community and I won't let other products be posted on VPF ... FALSE.

There must be at least five cab offers on VPF right now, Russ' PinDMD, Zeb's boards, etc. Having a hard time even seeing how this statement is anything more than a contrived manipulation of the truth. I don't get involved with VP development and I certainly don't tell them what they can and can't do. They ONLY thing I've ever restricted was the breaking of support for products already existing in the VP source. I just don't think that would be right.

There's so many more lies that Dazz and company have tried to spread about me that are ludicrous, and not enough time or space to review them all. I think I touched on the biggies here, and I'm satisfied with that. If you can take a moment to be objective, I believe anyone reading this will be, too.

So, there you have it. I'm not much for inciting drama on the net. All you'll see now is more accusations that I'm this, and I'm that. Take a good, long look at who's doing the shit slinging, fact spinning, and justifying their behavior, while I provide you with unequivocal facts laid right in front of you that define the people you call 'friends'.

Have a great night.
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  #38  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:26 AM
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Ok, Paul, you really don't deserve me to acknowledge you, but I'm going to anyway.

If that single image is the only thing that I took from VPF, then I'm doing much better than you. I will remove it. I have more respect for the community and have not ripped anything that your members have created from your site, unlike you did with VPForums.com. Since you brought it up; lets talk about who stole what... You starting VPForums.org, was a straight ripoff from VPForums.com. You ripped everything from that site in order to start a "spite site" even using the SAME NAME, VPForums.org. Come on.. you couldn't even be original when it come to the name of the site. If I really wanted to; I could easily rip your whole site, images, downloads and even the whole IPB database that runs your site. VPU is a clean slate, I don't want any of your leftovers.

Yes, I jumped into your chat under the name of "Mickey Fukin' Mouse". Weather or not it was done on accident. I'm glad I did it as it gave me real reason to create a new/better VP site. The chat was nothing but ending in a commercial for your cabinets anyway.

I don't give a damn about Chris Leathley. He turned his back on the community when the community needed him, just like you did. The community found a way... I have no problem at all in hosting the hacked exe as long as it moves the scene forward. Now if Chris (or the copy write holder) asked for it to be removed, then I wouldn't have an issue with it as long as he/they are furthering/continuing development.

Last I checked VPM was open source and under GPL license. Meaning that anyone can take that source and and add whatever they want to it. Destruk created the SAM code for Ultrapin, but did not release the source. This is a direct violation per GPL licensing. So, we had our "VPM Team" reverse engineer the dll that Destruk leaked, thus the SAM source was released.

Quote:
We were going to get approval to release it PROPERLY, and now they really have no interest in pursuing it or other VPM development.
I'm sure the community is glad that you don't have the ONLY "VPM Team".

As far as you and your "business"... No matter how you try to spin it; it is a CONFLICT OF INTEREST. You show, and let people play, the tables that were created by "your" community at your booth in order to sell cabinets. How is this NOT considered taking advantage of the table authors for profit? You are directly making a profit, no matter how small it might be, off of your community and their creations. I don't care about your BOM. It's a matter of principal. It doesn't matter if you are only making $1.00 per cabinet or $1000 per cabinet, you are still profiting off of the community and their creations. Now keep in mind that I'm not questioning, the fact, that you charge a subscription for people wanting to download more than 5 ROMS per day.

Individuals selling cabinets on your site is completely different than allowing advertising for someone advertising and selling cabinets like you do. Sure people have cabinets listed for sale, but you don't allow any cabinet sellers to advertise or even post their links to their stores where they sell cabinets or parts. Zeb's and Russ's products are excellent, but face it... they are not selling cabinets. They are not in direct competition with you.

In regards to Wildman; yes he's rude, crude and vulgar, but he's not a thief. He's our Wildman. We sit in chat and watch him create backglasses all day long. He has supplied MANY of the backglass images that are posted on FD's site. FD doesn't give any credits as to where many of his images are from. Many of the backglases on VPF have been created with images that Wildman shot. Unfortunately, the issue with this is that, no one owns any of these images that are being used in the first place unless its an original creation. I have created enough backglasses to know that if you are creating an authentic backglass, then it doesn't matter who created it as it's going to look the same or very close to one created by someone else. If you really do want to be picky about this shit, then one of my created backglasses has been edited slightly and reposed on VPF without my permission, but I'm not throwing a fit about it. The way I see it; it's all for the community in the first place, crying foul, whining and bickering about it is not worth it in the long run.

Last edited by Dazz; 04-25-2013 at 11:05 AM.
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  #39  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:28 AM
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I think it is obvious that the last one is true. No matter how much you write about the sun being cold, the sun will still be hot.

And it's the last one that is important because it does not speak to motives, but what we actually have. Keyboards are existing hardware that was supported, so restricting to existing hardware means your hardware that exists. I for one would be very proud of you for your cabinets and hardware if that last statement was indeed not false.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:27 AM
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Ok, Paul, you really don't deserve me to acknowledge you, but I'm going to anyway.

If that single image is the only thing that I took from VPF, then I'm doing much better than you. I will remove it. I have more respect for the community and have not ripped anything that your members have created from your site, unlike you did with VPForums.com. Since you brought it up; lets talk about who stole what... You starting VPForums.org, was a straight ripoff from VPForums.com. You ripped everything from that site in order to start a "spite site" even using the SAME NAME, VPForums.org. Come on.. you couldn't even be original when it come to the name of the site. If I really wanted to; I could easily rip your whole site, images, downloads and even the whole IPB database that runs your site. VPU is a clean slate, I don't want any of your leftovers.

Yes, I jumped into your chat under the name of "Mickey Fukin' Mouse". Weather or not it was done on accident. I'm glad I did it as it gave me real reason to create a new/better VP site. The chat was nothing but ending in a commercial for your cabinets anyway.

I don't give a damn about Chris Leathley. He turned his back on the community when the community needed him, just like you did. The community found a way... I have no problem at all in hosting the hacked exe as long as it moves the scene forward. Now if Chris (or the copy write holder) asked for it to be removed, then I wouldn't have an issue with it as long as he/they are furthering/continuing development.

Last I checked VPM was open source and under GPL license. Meaning that anyone can take that source and and add whatever they want to it. Destruk created the SAM code for Ultrapin, but did not release the source. This is a direct violation per GPL licensing. So, we had our "VPM Team" reverse engineer the dll that Destruk leaked, thus the SAM source was released.

Quote:
We were going to get approval to release it PROPERLY, and now they really have no interest in pursuing it or other VPM development.
I'm sure the community is glad that you don't have the ONLY "VPM Team".

As far as you and your "business"... No matter how you try to spin it; it is a CONFLICT OF INTEREST. You show, and let people play, the tables that were created by "your" community at your booth in order to sell cabinets. How is this NOT considered taking advantage of the table authors for profit? You are directly making a profit, no matter how small it might be, off of your community and their creations. I don't care about your BOM. It's a matter of principal. It doesn't matter if you are only making $1.00 per cabinet or $1000 per cabinet, you are still profiting off of the community and their creations. Now keep in mind that I'm not questioning, the fact, that you charge a subscription for people wanting to download more than 5 ROMS per day.

Individuals selling cabinets on your site is completely different than allowing advertising for someone advertising and selling cabinets like you do. Sure people have cabinets listed for sale, but you don't allow any cabinet sellers to advertise or even post their links to their stores where they sell cabinets or parts. Zeb's and Russ's products are excellent, but face it... they are not selling cabinets. They are not in direct competition with you.

In regards to Wildman; yes he's rude, crude and vulgar, but he's not a thief. He's our Wildman. We sit in chat and watch him create backglasses all day long. He has supplied MANY of the backglass images that are posted on FD's site. FD doesn't give any credits as to where many of his images are from. Many of the backglases on VPF have been created with images that Wildman shot. Unfortunately, the issue with this is that, no one owns any of these images that are being used in the first place unless its an original creation. I have created enough backglasses to know that if you are creating an authentic backglass, then it doesn't matter who created it as it's going to look the same or very close to one created by someone else. If you really do want to be picky about this shit, then one of my created backglasses has been edited slightly and reposed on VPF without my permission, but I'm not throwing a fit about it. The way I see it; it's all for the community in the first place, crying foul, whining and bickering about it is not worth it in the long run.
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  #41  
Old 04-25-2013, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah Fentz View Post
The who isn't important. It's the fact that it happened.
As I've already explained in a previous post, I have logs showing in near-perfect, chronological order that the backglasses uploaded to VPU were downloaded 12 or so hours prior from VPF. What Wildman fails to realize is it's not the backglass images that are the concern here. It's the hours and hours spent researching and testing the bulb placements, intensities, and numbers that have been ripped without permission. Backglasses have become just as integral to this hobby as tables, and by doing this, he is no better than someone blatantly ripping a JP table and posting it as his own with new images or the guy who ripped Itchigo's templates. They should be removed from any community-respecting site.

The irrefutable evidence in the logs.

See #3

He wasn't. That's a flat-out lie. If there is any truth to having others listening in on the conversation, then they know that, too. You can't even upload while banned, so how much sense does that statement even make?

I told him that even if he had permission, taking from the community and posting elsewhere without giving back is inappropriate. We are a community, not a resource.

I also never set the ultimatum. I unbanned him the minute he got off the phone, since he told me he DID have permission. Of course, I later discovered that was a flat out lie, as well, so his ban was resumed. He never even asked, he just took. Here, Wildman, you should get with this guy and hang out ... http://tinyurl.com/cqzoaz3 ... perfect match.

I think you should really think about what you just said. Dazz is nothing BUT a liar, thief, and manipulator with absolutely no respect for the community, and Wildman clearly lied about having permission. So, if you think they'll lie to others, but not you, you're naive. Dazz is even ripping images that I personally created for VPF! ... I have the PSD to prove it, if I must.

Let's review what Dazz and company have done so far to get VPU started and see just how honorable you really believe they are ...

Dazz totally and utterly disrespected Randy by dropping into our chat with him. Everything was going great, we were all having a good time, then BAM, it came to a screeching halt when 'Mickey Fucking Mouse' dropped in and out so fast, it could be nothing but intentional. MAJOR disrespect to Randy!

When I viewed who was online, he was one listed in the online list. Since he was already stirring trouble, I reviewed the access logs which clearly showed him viewing the 'Randy's in Chat Now' topic, then accessing chat. It was certainly a premeditated act with malicious intent. To this day, I'm sure he'll still tell you it was an accident.

After opening the site, Dazz decided the SAM code got out by an anonymous poster, so let's host it, it's out anyway. WRONG. The VPM team is EXTREMELY unhappy about this, and it already has had an effect on what they do and release in the future. We were going to get approval to release it PROPERLY, and now they really have no interest in pursuing it or other VPM development. There's more that could be done and released, but we can now kiss that goodbye. Not to mention it could get them into some legal hot water. MAJOR disrespect to the VPM team!

Later, they decide it's a good idea to host the hacked version of Future Pinball. The program is still under copyright and under license by a third party. What the hell is that?! MAJOR disrespect to Chris Leathley!

That's the ultimate trifecta of disrespect! Without the creators of VP, FP, and VPM, we wouldn't even have this hobby, and they immediately shit on all of them in the opening months!!

Now, knowing full well Wildman had absolutely no permission to, for all intents and purposes, MOD existing backglasses, they are happy to host those, as well. Absolutely no integrity whatsoever. Being so dead set to 'take VPF down', as Dazz has said is his mission, it seems he'll do and say just about anything toward that end, including not giving a damn about where the content he hosts came from. How's that for honor?

Yeah, he'd NEVER lie to you, right? Think again.

I find the entire situation despicable, deplorable, and out and out disrespectful to anyone and everyone who has ever contributed to this scene. How you, Al, and others can live with yourselves being involved with that is a mystery. When we were all hanging out, you guys showed integrity and would have immediately pounced on someone who did these things. I guess after ripping chat, you have all concluded that what's right and wrong for the community isn't really relevant anymore as long as your thirst for vengeance is satiated by hurting me, regardless of how much you're shitting on the community doing it? Without respect for our members that freely contribute to the scene, we will have nothing. It's been proven time and time again with some of our greatest contributors leaving the scene because of disrespectful people like this, and another one just left.

Since I'm addressing things tonight, why not go a little further with some of the other things I've been accused of, shall we?

Let's see ...

I'm taking advantage of the community by offering VirtuaPin products ... FALSE.

When I started VirtuaPin, you could find but one builder of cabinets out there, and he was asking $8K + for a cabinet! This was one of my main motivations, and I brought mine out for $4995! I wanted to promote the hobby and enable those who wanted a cab to have one. If I were to share with you the BOM on these units, you'd realize I must be doing it because I love it. I make enough to pay the bills and put food on the table, and it's a LOT of work.

By creating VirtuaPin, I've also saved our members thousands of dollars by not just offering the best prices you're going to find, but by also being able to order it all in one place. I worked very hard to get the prices I get to forward the savings onto our members.

It's all about the Benjamins ... FALSE.

Anyone who has ever done business with me knows this isn't true. I give things away all the time. I have to make a living, and I do this 80+ hours weekly between VirtuaPin and VPF. If working really hard and doing more than mousing around the internet falsely judging people is being all about the Benjamins, then I think it's high time someone reconsiders their goals in life.

My cabinet business has hindered development of the community and I won't let other products be posted on VPF ... FALSE.

There must be at least five cab offers on VPF right now, Russ' PinDMD, Zeb's boards, etc. Having a hard time even seeing how this statement is anything more than a contrived manipulation of the truth. I don't get involved with VP development and I certainly don't tell them what they can and can't do. They ONLY thing I've ever restricted was the breaking of support for products already existing in the VP source. I just don't think that would be right.

There's so many more lies that Dazz and company have tried to spread about me that are ludicrous, and not enough time or space to review them all. I think I touched on the biggies here, and I'm satisfied with that. If you can take a moment to be objective, I believe anyone reading this will be, too.

So, there you have it. I'm not much for inciting drama on the net. All you'll see now is more accusations that I'm this, and I'm that. Take a good, long look at who's doing the shit slinging, fact spinning, and justifying their behavior, while I provide you with unequivocal facts laid right in front of you that define the people you call 'friends'.

Have a great night.
Thanks for the reply. As I said, you and I have had no differences but, ken is a friend that I have personally watched spend countless hours on these. Of course I will jump to his defense.
To thin this down.. replies to your responses:

1. Yes, it does matter who is making claims. Are they a reliable source? If it is FD, whom I have always called friend, then what about the claims that WM was the original provider of images?

2. The logs. Simply put, if I were going to remake something, you can be sure that I would first download the existing version so as to see what needs improving. From what I understand, the program is what creates the code.
Unless you can can show something other than an image that is a complete copy, there is no way to show anything was plagiarized.

3. See #2

4. see #2

5. I was not there so that one is your word against his but, I don't understand why you would say "taking from the community and posting elsewhere without giving back is inappropriate" The community is not any one site. We are talking about the pinball community, not the vpf community. To assume otherwise would be pretty vain.

The rest of your reply talks about things I have no direct experience with so I don't think I am qualified to throw my opinion out. I prefer to take things, one issue at a time and I try not connect things that are unrelated.

I am telling you though, unless you have something beyond him downloading backglasses prior to releasing new ones, I can't see how you would assume he has stolen anything.
Why do you think he has not spent equal hours testing bulbs? Seriously? Who do you think tests his work? The guys in the chat room.

This is nothing like taking one of JP's table and swapping images on it and calling it a new release.
Beyond the downloading of backglass prior to his release new ones, what proof do the claimants have that their work has been stolen. Circumstantial evidence is not enough to prove anything. Show me unique code or something.

If you cant give solid evidence of theft, then you can't assume these were plagiarized.

(hope there are not too many typos in this. I am the world's worst typist.)
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  #42  
Old 04-25-2013, 12:37 PM
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What really get's me about the pinball stuff is that people bitch and complain about getting credit for something. Check out the HyperSpin site; we have tons of artists... None of them have ever bitched about the shit we are seeing in the VP scene. With HyperSpin we have WAY more pieces of artwork that we are dealing with, not to mention complete themes, etc. Our artists work like well oiled machines and don't whine and complain about who gets credit for what. Everything is done in the name of the community and the HS community is easily the best online community that I have ever been a part of.

I think most of the VP pinball scene, specifically VPF, people are into it for the wrong reasons. People want that claim to fame, so they whine and cry begging for credit even though they don't own any of the material (with exception of some originals).

As of right now, very little on VPF is really done for the good of the community.

Last edited by Dazz; 04-25-2013 at 12:54 PM.
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  #43  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazz View Post
What really get's me about the pinball stuff is that people bitch and complain about getting credit for something. Check out the HyperSpin site; we have tons of artists... None of them have ever bitched about the shit we are seeing in the VP scene. With HyperSpin we have WAY more pieces of artwork that we are dealing with, not to mention complete themes, etc. Our artists work like well oiled machines and don't whine and complain about who gets credit for what. Everything is done in the name of the community and the HS community is easily the best online community that I have ever been a part of.

I think most of the VP pinball scene, specifically VPF, people are into it for the wrong reasons. People want that claim to fame, so they whine and cry begging for credit even though they don't own any of the material (with exception of some originals).

As of right now, very little on VPF is really done for the good of the community.
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  #44  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:33 PM
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Paul my buddie my pal,,you really make me laugh man
I just love how you only hear what you want....
please stop trying to justify your lame ass actions.
really, man up and get some respect..
you just kill me with your bs man ..
i talk on the phone to you and TOLD YOU
I was referencing the pictures cause if i couldnt find better or make better
I used fd pictures...pictures paul..not bulb placment ,,or any other thing you can think of..i only dload for the picture to compare..once agian you say different
and you have no basis on that except your log .you dumbass thats why..
I am not ripping any content from your site to use except for pictures..
that your guys and you do the same thing I do..um go up on the net and get pictures
unless you have a copyright on YOUR SITE PICTURES you dont have
any reason to ban my account except that you are mad cause i will not contribute to your site anymore..I seen alot of your shit paul and i wont go into it here
bottom line is you banned my account cause your mad..SIMPLE
if you want to really talk about content and all that..well its ok for your site to rip and steal pics and info off of the net..but nobody else can...
where the hell did flying dutchman get his content? humm?
oh i can show you all day long where he got it cause i gettin it from the same damm place for backglasses and pictures..and logos..and videos..ahh crap is PHOTOSHOP yours too? and everything you own to the existence of VPF..so
stop sayin how you protectin the community..Your just tryin to justifiy your own stolen content off of the internet..shit man should I keep going on paul??? Did i ever ask flyin dutchman to use his stolen modified pictures ..NO you are right I did not..Did I give Credit to flyin dutchman for the pictures...Yes I DID and, will I will I do it again NO I WILL NOT..

thats what was said in the phone call but as always you hear only what you wanted to cause it came down to ..I didnt put it on your site..
so now I am bored with your bs so..UNLESS you can prove i used anything from your site to make my bg except pictures,(and if you even bothered to check any bg I put out theres is no bulbs placement cause the program that stephan made do not require them for the effect dumbass)
ummm daa maybe you shoud of look at that paul..oh why would you ?
just as easy to ban me cause you didnt get content..LOL

paul if you want any respect or a pat on the back anymore quit being such a spoiled little brat..Admit when your wrong and fix your mistakes..
AND you did call it wrong and make a BIG MISTAKE accusing me of anything, that you do at your site everyday,, 360 days a year..

Oh and ps..for your info i see alot of new bg videos posted on your site
(that does not steal content lol ) of my Backglasses from http://vpuniverse.com/forums/files/c...s-backglasses/
that you have no permission from me or VPU to host at your site
so..WOW you should ban yourself for the same thing you banned me for ?


Tell ya what you make shit right ..restore my shit not say a word
and I will forget I even ever met you paul..
Hell man i havent posted or talk to you for a year..oh now i got somthing you want.BANNED..We get it man
But if you keep wantin to play games..man Im in cause we will take down your fuckin site and enlighten people to how you really are..
and out of the 4616 members( and we getting about 30 a day easy.) we have so far..most from VPF..your not looking to good any more..

Make it right..get respect agian..you know my pm.............BE a Fuckin man.....instead of a POS

and hey while on that thought do you relize how many pictures ( modified by you or not ) are copyright protected ?????? on Your site

Ive had sites I made shut down for 1 logo and 1 word ,,,,think about that paul
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  #45  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:34 PM
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really i being modded then go with my first post ....thanks
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  #46  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wildman View Post
really i being modded then go with my first post ....thanks
I am not sure what you mean, but if you think you are/were being moderated, you are wrong.

The only thing edited or removed from this site are spammers or their boner pill links.

You can call people cocksuckers here if you want.... Just remember that they can call you a cocksucker back.

This site doesn't strive or really want to be politically correct, it is what it is.
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  #47  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wildman View Post
really i being modded then go with my first post ....thanks
Eh?

Nothing has been modded here, we believe in freedom of speech, whatever the topic.

Freedom of advertising, not so much...
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  #48  
Old 04-26-2013, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by wildman View Post
really i being modded then go with my first post ....thanks
Paul my buddie my pal,,you really make me laugh man
I just love how you only hear what you want....
please stop trying to justify your lame ass actions.
really, man up and get some respect..
you just kill me with your bs man ..
i talk on the phone to you and TOLD YOU
I was referencing the pictures cause if i couldnt find better or make better
I used fd pictures...pictures paul..not bulb placment ,,or any other thing you can think of..i only dload for the picture to compare..once agian you say different
and you have no basis on that except your log .you dumbass thats why..
I am not ripping any content from your site to use except for pictures..
that your guys and you do the same thing I do..um go up on the net and get pictures
unless you have a copyright on YOUR SITE PICTURES you dont have
any reason to ban my account except that you are mad cause i will not contribute to your site anymore..I seen alot of your shit paul and i wont go into it here
bottom line is you banned my account cause your mad..SIMPLE
if you want to really talk about content and all that..well its ok for your site to rip and steal pics and info off of the net..but nobody else can...
where the hell did flying dutchman get his content? humm?
oh i can show you all day long where he got it cause i gettin it from the same damm place for backglasses and pictures..and logos..and videos..ahh crap is PHOTOSHOP yours too? ..so
stop sayin how you protectin the community..Your just tryin to justifiy your own stolen content off of the internet..shit man should I keep going on paul??? Did i ever ask flyin dutchman to use his stolen modified pictures ..NO you are right I did not..Did I give Credit to flyin dutchman for the pictures...Yes I DID and will I do it again NO I WILL NOT..

thats what was said in the phone call but as always you hear only what you wanted to cause it came down to ..I didnt put it on your site..
so now I am bored with your bs so..UNLESS you can prove i used anything from your site to make my bg except pictures,(and if you even bothered to check any bg I put out theres is no bulbs placement cause the program that stephan made do not require them for the effect dumbass)
ummm daa maybe you shoud of looked at that paul..oh why would you ?
just as easy to ban me cause you didnt get content..LOL

paul if you want any respect or a pat on the back anymore quit being such a spoiled little brat..Admit when your wrong and fix your mistakes..
AND you did call it wrong and made a BIG MISTAKE accusing me of anything, that you do at your site everyday,, 360 days a year..

Oh and ps..for your info i see alot of new bg videos posted on your site
(that does not steal content lol ) of my Backglasses from http://vpuniverse.com/forums/files/c...s-backglasses/
that you have no permission from me or VPU to host at your site
so..WOW you should ban yourself for the same thing you banned me for ?


Tell ya what you make shit right ..restore my Account not say a word
and I will forget I even ever met you paul..Hell I already did for the last year...
.oh wait now I have somthing you want...Im BANNED..We get it man

Make it right..get respect agian..you know my pm.............BE a Fuckin man.....instead of a POS
ahhh shit who am I kidding your just gonna twist everything i just said like you always do..Thats what your good at...sittin in a pile of shit and smelling like roses..
did you know that 90% of the pictures you are hosting on your site is copyrighted material ?
Im sure you have written permission for all them pictures and art on your site right Paul !!
hell I have seen sites get shut down for just a couple of logos and pictures...hummm....Have A nice day
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  #49  
Old 04-26-2013, 08:37 AM
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not trying to take away from the seriousness of all this
but reading these reminds me so much of this little event
The Great Pie Fight - YouTube Tony Curtis plays Noah, Jack Lemmon is Wildman
and Peter Falk is Dazz

Last edited by faralos; 04-26-2013 at 08:43 AM.
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  #50  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:26 AM
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Here are the links you need Paul.
In case you are wondering how I found them. From the download section I clicked the M and paged through to them.
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?ap...&showfile=3065
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?ap...&showfile=3087
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?ap...&showfile=3098
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  #51  
Old 04-26-2013, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevOz View Post
Eh?

Nothing has been modded here, we believe in freedom of speech, whatever the topic.

Freedom of advertising, not so much...
He's talking about first posts on this site are evidently moderated. The first posts of people have have to be approved by admin here before they appear. Same thing happened to me. First post didn't show for about 2 days.
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  #52  
Old 04-26-2013, 06:45 PM
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Yeah, that's normal for first posters. It's a setting to keep spam down. I have that option as well, but mine is off.

When I hear "community", why do I always think of the Mars Attacks quote: "We come in peace"....

Oh, and this is from Rukia's Rogue House.
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  #53  
Old 04-28-2013, 03:37 AM
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for popcorn, air-popped is the healthiest. then spritz on some extra-virgin olive oil (mm... virgin), sprinkle on powdery toppings of choice, shake in bag / mix in big bowl / etc. repeat as needed.

powdery topping ideas? onion powder, paprika, garlic, mrs. dash, cinnamon, nutritional yeast, even real-lime powder. real-lime powder makes it taste delicious, in fact, like the lime-flavored tortilla chips, etc.

recent studies show that popcorn is very high in antioxidants, too. so while you sit and munch, enjoying show, you're also fighting cancer. neat, huh?
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  #54  
Old 04-28-2013, 01:11 PM
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If you can link me, I'll take it down.
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?ap...&showfile=3065
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?ap...&showfile=3087
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?ap...&showfile=3098
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  #55  
Old 04-28-2013, 02:50 PM
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Thanks for taking those down Paul.

I intend to update them, and it's best that outdated versions are not at a site I have no access to.
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  #56  
Old 04-28-2013, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazz View Post
Ok, Paul, you really don't deserve me to acknowledge you, but I'm going to anyway.

If that single image is the only thing that I took from VPF, then I'm doing much better than you. I will remove it.
Nah. You can leave it. After all, you've pretty much cloned VPF anyway, and it shows just how disrespectful you are.

Quote:
I have more respect for the community and have not ripped anything that your members have created from your site, unlike you did with VPForums.com. Since you brought it up; lets talk about who stole what... You starting VPForums.org, was a straight ripoff from VPForums.com.
Really? That's what you got? You can't steal something that was abandoned.

Quote:
You ripped everything from that site in order to start a "spite site" even using the SAME NAME, VPForums.org. Come on.. you couldn't even be original when it come to the name of the site.
It certainly was never a spite site, as your site surely is. It was intended to be a FULLY functioning site, as AJ 'upgraded' and broke just about everything that mattered. We ripped nothing. I contacted every active author to get permission, those inactive that returned were grateful. Some of the inactive authors I sought out and contacted. Not one author, other than Shockman, had a single issue with us picking up the ball. In fact, without VPF, there would be no community to speak of today. We worked hard to bring back to prominence a community that was dying a slow, agonizing death. You're welcome.

Quote:
If I really wanted to; I could easily rip your whole site, images, downloads and even the whole IPB database that runs your site. VPU is a clean slate, I don't want any of your leftovers.
You refer to every authors' current works as 'leftovers'? Yep, you're definitely out of your mind.

Quote:
Yes, I jumped into your chat under the name of "Mickey Fukin' Mouse". Weather or not it was done on accident. I'm glad I did it as it gave me real reason to create a new/better VP site. The chat was nothing but ending in a commercial for your cabinets anyway.
Well, we both know it was intentional, but I understand you have to keep the lie going. You wouldn't want your friends knowing you lied to them. You would be ostracized! I didn't dictate the direction of the chat, either, those in the chat did. What can I say? The VirtuaPin is the best thing out there today, and always will be.

Quote:
I don't give a damn about Chris Leathley. He turned his back on the community when the community needed him, just like you did. The community found a way... I have no problem at all in hosting the hacked exe as long as it moves the scene forward. Now if Chris (or the copy write holder) asked for it to be removed, then I wouldn't have an issue with it as long as he/they are furthering/continuing development.
And how does this give anyone the right to hack his software? It doesn't.

Quote:
Last I checked VPM was open source and under GPL license. Meaning that anyone can take that source and and add whatever they want to it. Destruk created the SAM code for Ultrapin, but did not release the source. This is a direct violation per GPL licensing. So, we had our "VPM Team" reverse engineer the dll that Destruk leaked, thus the SAM source was released.

I'm sure the community is glad that you don't have the ONLY "VPM Team".
There is only ONE VPM team, open source or not, and you shit on them. Anyone else is just creating derivative works. Not to mention how manipulative it was to be a part of the anonymous release, then act surprised to see it. True colors bleeding right through. Wait ... did you say 'our' VPM team? Just like I say our authors when I explain we are a community of hobbyists recreating tables? Interesting.

Quote:
As far as you and your "business"... No matter how you try to spin it; it is a CONFLICT OF INTEREST. You show, and let people play, the tables that were created by "your" community at your booth in order to sell cabinets. How is this NOT considered taking advantage of the table authors for profit? You are directly making a profit, no matter how small it might be, off of your community and their creations. I don't care about your BOM. It's a matter of principal. It doesn't matter if you are only making $1.00 per cabinet or $1000 per cabinet, you are still profiting off of the community and their creations.
HA! A perfect example of how little you know about me. JP gave me permission to use any and all of his tables for demonstration purposes and more! I had to remind him I couldn't sell the tables with the unit. You really should wait until you're actually informed before making assumptions and passing judgment based on those assumptions.

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Now keep in mind that I'm not questioning, the fact, that you charge a subscription for people wanting to download more than 5 ROMS per day.
Yeah, it's kinda like hosting artwork and charging for access, right? You should probably be bitching about Bill's business model then, too, eh? Using art created by others to generate revenue? Not to mention your future business model. Deny it all you want. I was informed well over a year ago what your intentions have been all along, remember?

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Individuals selling cabinets on your site is completely different than allowing advertising for someone advertising and selling cabinets like you do. Sure people have cabinets listed for sale, but you don't allow any cabinet sellers to advertise or even post their links to their stores where they sell cabinets or parts. Zeb's and Russ's products are excellent, but face it... they are not selling cabinets. They are not in direct competition with you.
The individuals you speak of sell illegal art, ship with tables and ROMs installed in one builder's case, and destroy pieces of pinball history in the other. You really think it's appropriate to advertise destroying real pinball cabinets and selling them on a pinball preservation site? I certainly don't.

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In regards to Wildman; yes he's rude, crude and vulgar, but he's not a thief. He's our Wildman. We sit in chat and watch him create backglasses all day long. He has supplied MANY of the backglass images that are posted on FD's site. FD doesn't give any credits as to where many of his images are from. Many of the backglases on VPF have been created with images that Wildman shot. Unfortunately, the issue with this is that, no one owns any of these images that are being used in the first place unless its an original creation. I have created enough backglasses to know that if you are creating an authentic backglass, then it doesn't matter who created it as it's going to look the same or very close to one created by someone else. If you really do want to be picky about this shit, then one of my created backglasses has been edited slightly and reposed on VPF without my permission, but I'm not throwing a fit about it. The way I see it; it's all for the community in the first place, crying foul, whining and bickering about it is not worth it in the long run.
It is all for the community, and it's that very community that has collectively decided what the rules are. Our rules keep the peace and are intended to prevent our contributors from being discouraged and leaving, because their work has been ripped.

Well, that's all I have to say on this matter. Your true colors are all here to see, and it's obvious to anyone who has been around for any length of time and has actually been involved in our great hobby. Maybe when you actually recreate a table or a complete set of backglasses, and it takes you months, you'll understand.

Have a nice day!
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:01 PM
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Thanks for taking those down Paul.

I intend to update them, and it's best that outdated versions are not at a site I have no access to.
No problem, Phil. As I mentioned before, they were made 'invisible' before, and had only reappeared after the major update.

It would have been sooner, but I've been very, very busy lately. My apologies.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:14 PM
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Really? That's what you got? You can't steal something that was abandoned.
That has always been my point Paul, and I have expressed it before. You can not get anything from a site that is down, not to mention the entire database. You make it always read as though you salvaged this material, but that's not possible. It's easier to believe you took all this stuff before the site went down. At a point in time where everyone of us agreed it was taboo.

How do you explain this?
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:23 PM
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If the 'hacked' VPM software came from someone on the team, and was leaked by someone on the team, then I would not say someone that hosts it is the responsible party. I happen to know there was tables being built that needed the SAM before the SAM drivers were put into VPM.

You could say it was not intended to be used, but no one would believe it. We believe that it was not intended for public use at this point in time though, but some of us would feel that if anyone should have access to it then access to it can not be such a bad thing as you now make it out to be.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:24 PM
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That has always been my point Paul, and I have expressed it before. You can not get anything from a site that is down, not to mention the entire database. You make it always read as though you salvaged this material, but that's not possible. It's easier to believe you took all this stuff before the site went down. At a point in time where everyone of us agreed it was taboo.

How do you explain this?
Everything uploaded was from either my collection, destruk's collection (he had darn near EVERYTHING), TAB's, or the tables' respective authors'.

We did not, at any time, download all of the content just to harvest it for VPF. The three of us had complete collections between us.
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