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EMs & Beyond Discuss your more modern machines, or just your memeories of them.

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  #1  
Old 01-17-2006, 09:17 PM
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Default The Pinball Hall of Fame in Vegas

In case any of you haven't bothered scrolling down the page over at VPF and looked at the 'Announcements and Tournaments' forum, you may have missed this info. Nice guy I am, I'll relay it for you here!

4 miles east of the Strip on Tropicana Blvd in Vegas, a 'pinball museum' has just opened up, also known as The Pinball Hall of Fame. It's stocked with over 130 tables in seven rows, one row for each decade. While I haven't visited it yet myself (I mean it JUST opened on the 13th, and I'm in SoCal, not Vegas), there's many a promise to get hyped up about.

For starters, the tables are all from private collectors in the area, so presumably they are in better shape than you've probably ever dreamed. Next, they have over 1000 tables in a wherehouse to rotate in, so selection should be exciting. Finally, they are not financially dependent on customers coming in (it's more of a place to have pin on display and playable) as they are set up as non profit.

Anyway, there are photo links over at VPF to look at, but I thought I'd bring it to light over here too.

Can I get a 'yippy skippy' from anyone?
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Old 01-18-2006, 01:49 AM
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Yippy Skippy

Just too bloody far away from Melbourne (that's Australia not Florida!).

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Old 01-18-2006, 03:28 AM
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What, we don't rate a photo link? But really, thanks for the alert, I sure do wish it were here in Cincinnati, so I could check it out, since I don't travel too well nowadays. I'm hoping that the Pinball Journal don't a big feature on this, with loads of pictures.
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Old 01-18-2006, 06:45 AM
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Is this a "hands off, these are valuable relics" type museum...or do they let you actually play the things? (More's the pity for those private owners!)
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Old 01-18-2006, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tudnut
Is this a "hands off, these are valuable relics" type museum...or do they let you actually play the things? (More's the pity for those private owners!)
While some of the older ones probably should be "hands off, these are valuable relics" I understand they are set on free play. Cool, huh?
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Old 01-18-2006, 06:30 PM
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This is a 'please play to your hearts content' kind of place, though I don't believe they're set to free play. The way I understant it, they are set to era specific prices, but there is supposed to be an option of buying a smart card and then you can play all you want. This is a non profit bunch of guys who previously had their games stored in a wherehouse behind some guy's house. These guys are interested in preserving the history of pinball, while trying to attract people to it's joys. So rather than inviting people over to the wherehouse on the weekend, they now have a storefront that is open 7 days a week, staffed by volunteers who are members of the local pinball club, and any profits they make will be donated to charity. I'm not clear on the financial specifics, but somehow the place is operating on the interest they are collecting from a fund they have established, thus they are not customer dependent.

There's all types of museums in Vegas (Elvis, Liberace, Wax, car, sex, you name it), but this one'll be hands on. Like any museum, the pieces will be rotated in and out, thus allowing for maintanence and refurbishing.

As for pictures, well it looks like I'm actually going to be going to this true 'pinball nirvana' this weekend, so I'll make sure I fill my memory stick. I'll try and get more info on the workings of the joint, but then again I'll be there to sink a whole shitload of quarters, not conduct an interview! All the same, I'll report whatever I can to this lovely sight next week.
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Old 01-18-2006, 07:04 PM
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That'll be great friebus. Since I'll never get there, reading about your visit will be nice. From what I understand Tim Arnold has been collecting and repairing pins for years, and holding parties at his warehouse. All donations, etc, have gone into the fund you mentioned, and it's large enough now that the interest does pay for the lease. i'm going to have to break down and get a few of the videos Yim and his friends put out.

When I get the current issue of PinGameJournal I'll see if there are any pix I can scan and post here for everyone to droll over.
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Old 01-18-2006, 07:13 PM
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Don't forget to bring a digital camera, we can never have too many good quality photos floating about.
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Old 01-18-2006, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHoSTFaCe
Don't forget to bring a digital camera, we can never have too many good quality photos floating about.
Especially of any flipperless of trade stimulators, which are nearly impossible to find.
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Old 01-18-2006, 09:45 PM
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Hey, if you see any of the following can you get me pics: Williams Travel Time (playfield - I have a good Backglass), Williams Jive Time (or Rock n Roll), Williams Expo and Exhibit's Jeanie. Those are my specific requests, frankly if you can find any EM which is not yet recreated I would like pics.

Thanks and enjoy the Pinball Hall of Fame (you lucky lucky bastard )

DS
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Old 01-19-2006, 12:00 AM
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I'll do my best with photographing tables for my own memories, and I'll be sure to bring a list of game requests to do specific photos.

Here's my question for you guys...how do you want the pictures? A certain angle, detail studies, straight overhead, nothing but backglass, what? Obviously I'm not gonna be able to get anything without the glass top, and from what I've seen the place is lit up pretty well with overhead flourescents.

So if you have preferences, maybe you can show me some examples of good vs. bad. Anyone with an actual table could snap some photos to show me what is usable and what is not. I'd really like to help in any way possible.
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Old 01-19-2006, 12:57 AM
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Hi Friebus

Thanks for taking your camera. The best shot for a playfield is one from directly above. Obviously this is not always possible so I would say the less angle the better - a lot of reproductions are made from pics that are taken at a high angle but not directly above and we can correct pics but there are always compromises when you do this. Also I would request that you are directly in front of the machine so any when you look at the pic it might recede into the background but it does so evenly on both sides (I hope this makes sense). Almost the same applies to the backglass - a straight on shot is best.

I've attached 2 pics, neither is from straight above but they might give you some idea - the pic of Williams Seven Up would be very difficult to deal with as it is at such a low angle. The pic of Gottlieb Royal Flush is much better but would still need some adjusting - it's not quite straight and is also not taken from directly above (looking at this pic I might do this one after I finish Pirate Gold). The resolution is important too - VP can only take an image which is 1024 x 1024 pixels but when I correct an image I like to correct a much larger image and shrink it after correcting the image.

Hope this is not too much trouble, hey you're going there to play pinball so take photos if you want to.

DS

PS: I have a good pic at home I'll try and send later so you can see a straight above pic.
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Old 01-19-2006, 10:29 AM
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I agree with everything David said. I've attached an image of a bingo that's a good example of a shot that can be worked with. It needs to be rotated just a bit and then flattened. but it should result in an image I can use to make a good quality table from. Now, if there are any counter top games, those should be as straight on as possible, as as close up as possible, to show as much detail as can be shown. Thanks for any pictures you can take, wish I were able to meet you guys there.
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Old 01-22-2006, 04:57 PM
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Here's a link Jim from PinGameJournal sent me of some pix of the Pinball Hall Of Fame. I'm also attched two pix for the parking lot, to show how visiable the pins really are.

http://photobucket.com/albums/e101/n...t=IMG_1998.jpg
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Old 01-23-2006, 09:28 PM
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Drool

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Old 01-24-2006, 02:31 AM
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Default It was great!

That place is increadible! It's like a museum where you can actually interact with the exhibts. How often are you going to find an arcade that has no video games? It's wall to wall pins! There were tables from the '50s to the '90s with most from the '60s or '70s. There must be about 130 pins with room for about 3 dozen more.

If you can believe it, we never set foot in a casino either. I picked up Friebus at 7, we got to the Pinball Hall of Fame at 11:30, we went to lunch at 2:30, returned at 3:30, then stayed till 8:30. We got back at 12:30. If any of you are ever in Vegas or are within driving distance of there you need to stop by and play. All the tables are in excellent working order.

To those that never got to play any Gottlieb System 3 games, you're not missing anything. There's an entire row of them there, but they were boring; no wonder they went bankrupt. I had much more fun playing the Gottlieb wedge heads or Bally and Williams EMs.

The thing that I immeadiatley noticed was that all the games, no matter what era, played slower than it's VP recreation; the slope seemed much less steep. It was also very evident that non-Fliptronic flippers, of any type, are weaker and slower than they are set in their VP recreations. Even when I played Funhouse there, the ball traveled noticeably slower and the flippers were slower and weaker. I had no trouble making any of the shots, nor making catches or traps once I adjusted to the slower speed; it's just the game played slower than it did in VP.

I'll post a link for the pics I took of machines once I get them uploaded. I'm already trying to plan when I can go back and spend an entire weekend in Vegas and more time at the Pinball Hall of Fame!

Tom & Tim


Friebus & Tom


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Old 01-24-2006, 03:26 AM
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I don't know...the slopes are slow and the flippers are slower? That doesn't sound right, at all (not that I'm at all trying to detract from what they're doing).

Perhaps they've intentionally tried to make things easier for people? (Of course, those slow flippers don't necessarily do that.)
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Old 01-24-2006, 03:29 AM
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Oh, and per John's pic from the parking lot...

...wow.

(WAY too breathless to say that emphatically enough to deserve caps!)
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Old 01-24-2006, 04:52 AM
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Tim Arnold has many years of experience, and the machines are certified by him and Hippy (his helper) to be well maintained, at correct slope, new rubbers and working order. So I doubt the settings are wrong. Then again I only played his machines once about two years ago, and they played just fine as far as I was concerned. VP wacks the ball around quite quick, but then it's not accurate - it's designed to be a video game. Faster balls are more fun on a computer.
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Old 01-24-2006, 07:05 AM
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Yeah, but I always get a bit concerned about older games having real low slopes and weak flippers. Having been there (and I'm not saying you weren't, Des), I remember a lot of old machines being a lot faster than the way some of the people are rec'ing them on vp.

Besides (and this is an honest question): were the games supposed to have some certain optimal slope to play correctly? (In other words, was something advised in the owner's manuals?)
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Old 01-24-2006, 07:16 AM
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yep. General slope specifications for newer games are about 6.5 degree incline. As for EM's, I have no idea. Most of those played a lot shallower.
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Old 01-24-2006, 07:22 AM
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Well, as I've said elsewhere, I played them with every kind of incline imaginable (like with coasters under one leg or another, just to keep the thing level! lol)

But some of those old games were DAMN fast, even when (pretty obviously) set up the way they were supposed to be. I certainly don't remember any SLOW games that were relatively new.
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Old 01-24-2006, 03:01 PM
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Tell you what, tudnut. Since you concider yourself such an EM expert, why don't you go to Vegas, play the extensive assortment of pre-SS tables, tell Tim & Hippy that the settings on their very well maintained tables don't correctly jibe with your crystal clear 30 or 40 year old memory and see what kind of response you receive.

Just to remove any doubt from your mind, I did not state my previous impression of the tables just to specifically goad you. Friebus expressed the same opinion when we were there that, in general, the tables played slower than their VP recreations.

Get over it; Stern, the Pinball Factory / Bally nor Mondial / Premiere / Gottlieb are not going to ever release one of your cherished "simple, intrinsic" EM tables again. Williams is not going to cease gambling machine production to make your "beloved" Satin Doll II just for you. I'd much rather play Pat Hand anyways. Quit trying to live in the past Luddite and life should be much easier and enjoyable.

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Old 01-24-2006, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValamirCleaver
Get over it; Stern, the Pinball Factory / Bally nor Mondial / Premiere / Gottlieb are not going to ever release one of your cherished "simple, intrinsic" EM tables again. Williams is not going to cease gambling machine production to make your "beloved" Satin Doll II just for you. I'd much rather play Pat Hand anyways. Quit trying to live in the past Luddite and life should be much easier and enjoyable.

Tom
You just busted all my dreams Tom. :P I've been waiting for Gottlieb to arise from the ashes and remake all the fairey tale tables. I still live in the past, but I visit all eras now and again. And I never doubted for a minute that VP tables play faster than the real thing, and on most EMs I lower the slope so they play like I remember them. A friend has a Pinbot, and I always play the VPM version before I'm going to play his, and it has helped me improve my R/L scores.
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Old 01-24-2006, 05:25 PM
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I REALLY must go there...problem is I live on the other side of the country.
Maybe I can convince my family that if we go to california to stop there. It would be like.....vacation.
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Old 01-24-2006, 08:31 PM
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You think you've got problems Zerhino - I live on the other side of the world

I remember EMs having a fair angle and most older machines I have played have been set up too flat in my opinion. However, the angle is, of course, operator set. I suspect Tudnut and I just played them where the operator set the angle higher. I know that the angle varied by machine and the place you played them. Some machines were slow and slower than the VP versions. I tend to like to speed them up a bit as that's how I remember them. Especially the easy games were often set at a higher angle.

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Old 01-25-2006, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltjlp
You just busted all my dreams Tom. :P I've been waiting for Gottlieb to arise from the ashes and remake all the fairey tale tables. I still live in the past, but I visit all eras now and again. And I never doubted for a minute that VP tables play faster than the real thing, and on most EMs I lower the slope so they play like I remember them..
(LOL)

I'm glad somone else has a sense of humor about this, John. While I have no problem with nostalgic opinion, I tire when one continually confuses that with fact in their dealings with me; especially when they avoid addressing direct questions.

Tom
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Old 01-29-2006, 06:27 AM
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Let's see...I mentioned that I "remembered" games as being faster, and that a lot of games (not all) were faster...and from this you get:

1. That I have no sense of humor.
2. That I'm a self-proclaimed EM expert.
3. That, somehow or other, I'm hoping someone brings EM's back.
4. That that particular response was somehow antagonistic as far as my having been "goaded" into it by you (even though it was in response to des).
5. That I avoid addressing direct questions.

Sorry my responses pack so much innuendo! lol
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