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Old 08-12-2014, 11:37 PM
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Post Gottlieb "Paradise" EM Pinball not working

I am new to pinball, especially EM machines so I apologize in advance if I state something incorrectly.

I recently purchased a 1965 Gottlieb "Paradise" that was fully operational with the exception of properly keeping track of the balls played. It would do odd things like give random balls and switch between player 1 and 2 in a single player game. Upon inspection I found a broken wire on a contact switch in the backbox at the balls played "rotator" and the "rotator" itself was loose. I repaired the wire and tightened the rotator so the spring contacts were in their correct positions.

The machine then played perfectly several times. It kept track of the player and balls correctly in both 1 and 2 player games. I was feeling great. After a few games I tried again but now the machine will not power on at all. No reset, no lights, no nothing. I have done my best to check all fuses and fuse holders, coin door switches, plugs, relays, score motor etc. but nothing seems to change anything. I have plugged the game in and used a multi-tester to check the transformer which is working and power is supplied throughout checked locations in the game. I am stumped and welcome any ideas on what to check and/or where to look. Thank you.
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Old 08-14-2014, 01:05 PM
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i worked on a paradise pin for a collector in NJ about 2 years ago. he had a schematic for every machine he owned, which was helpful. of what i remember from the schematic the lock or hold relays and the reset of the machine worked off of 120v. he had installed his own on/off toggle switch because on older pins they didnt have one. when i used the switch to turn the machine on , it still would not come on. the replay button or coin switch was needed to turn machine on or start a game.the extra usage of 120v circuits included 120v at the metal reset button start switch on the coin door. if the insulating fish paper goes bad , a bad shock can occur at the reset button because of the non grounded line cord. check resistance of the lock or hold and start relay coils. bad coils could keep machine from turning on. if you have a schematic for the machine the hold and start 120v circuits will be in-between the line cord plug and the transformer. congrats on getting the ball count/player up unit working correctly.
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Old 08-15-2014, 12:30 AM
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Post Excellent advice - Machine mostly back

Thank you Pinballdaveh for your excellent advice. I followed your advice and checked the recommended circuits. I do have the schematic and followed the path from line cord to the 120v circuit hold relay. I checked the hold relay with my multi tester and 120v was present at the switch contacts. I discovered that if I manually bump the relay to force the switch to contact that it would turn on the machine. I removed the relay for closer inspection and it seemed rather brittle. If I unplug the machine and try to restart, it will not come on until I manually bump the relay again.

What do you think might be the cause for the 120v hold relay not working on its own? Could it be back at the coin door switches, credit button or start relay? Thank you for helping me get my machine back. I was afraid it was gone.
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:02 AM
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gottlieb hold relay and bally, williams lock relay coils get the most usage because they are always energized when the machine is turned on. when they start getting brittle they are bad or dont have much life left. relay operation is done by 2 different ways. the 1st is a pulse , from a target or a rollover for example. the second is what we call its hold circuit. it keeps the relay pulled in once it is pulsed. the hold circuit releases the coil after its function is done usually a switch on the score motor. in the case of a hold relay its hold circuit usually will contain slam switches( located on coin door, under playfield, inside mech board, and sometimes in head) and sometimes delay relay. these switches are always NC switches wired in series , so when one switch opens the hold circuit de-energizes the relay coil. if you push the reset button and the hold relay does not try to pull in , or when you manually bump the hold relay and it does not stay pulled in on its own, the hold relay coil should be changed. burnt or brittle coils are hard to read its part# off of it. usually the schematic will have needed part#s for all the coils. marco and pinball resource are 2 of the best places for coils and parts.
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:34 PM
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Default I am almost there. Just one issue.

I replaced the 120v hold relay with a new one ordered from Marco and that solved a large portion of the problems I was having. I also replaced several bulbs. The machine is functioning almost perfectly with one exception. The ball count/player up unit is giving me trouble. It resets correctly back to player one, ball one with the proper lights illuminated. The problem is that when the first ball is over the ball count/player up unit does not step up correctly. I watched the ball count/player up unit numerous times with a ball in play to see how it acts. It appears that sometimes the advance player/ball solenoid fires too many times. In other words the solenoid should fire twice to advance from player one, ball one to player one, ball two but fired three or four times to advance to the wrong ball/player. When the last ball is complete is does go to game over and ends. It is just the balls in between that is not correct. For some reason the advance player/ball solenoid fires the incorrect amount of times. If I advance the ball count/player up unit manually it counts up correctly. I posted a photo of the machine and a photo with an arrow pointing to the advance player/ball solenoid. Any ideas.
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Old 08-24-2014, 12:09 PM
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thanks for the added info. you said how the machine works for a single player game. does the ball count/player up unit step correctly on a 2 player game? the ball count/player count unit get its pulses from 1 or 2 switches on the score motor. find the ball count/player up step up solenoid circuit on the schematic . find the score motor switch(s) that are used and check for pitted contacts and switch contact gaps that are too close. that type of problem may cause a multi pulse of a coil. lightly file switch contacts and re-gap if needed. other relay switches might be involved in this circuit, but its usually the score motor switches that complete the circuit and suffers the arcing. on most gottlieb machines a score motor chart label will be on the inside of the cabinet, with info on numbered switch positions and cam locations. congrats on getting the hold relay coil changed and working.
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Old 08-24-2014, 05:50 PM
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Smile Success!!

Thank You pinballdaveh once again for absolutely excellent advice. My machine is now fully operational. I checked the score motor schematic inside the machine which is in bad shape but still had the info I needed visible (Photo attached). Per your advice I found the switch and contacts that advance the balls played unit located at Motor 2C, Sixth Switch and sure enough the contacts did not have adequate gap and were dirty. The contacts did not separate with the motor moving and allowed the coil to advance the balls played unit multiple times. I used fine sandpaper to clean the contacts and then used rubbing alcohol to further clean them. I then added gap between the contacts. After cleaning the contacts and adding gap the machine has played without error since. I want to thank you again for all the assistance.
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Old 08-26-2014, 01:44 PM
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i see from the score motor switch chart that position 3B third switch is also in the step up circuit. i guess that you have checked this switch also and found it working properly. congrats on getting your machine working.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:40 PM
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Yes. I checked the 3B, third switch first and cleaned it but it did not change anything. I then checked the 2C, Sixth Switch and discovered the problem.
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