Which Presidential Candidate Do You Hate the Most?

[Shockman]

As long as the video was, I actually learned nothing other than trivial points from it. It is truth, well understood, and nothing was made up, or spun.

This all is done with a belief that the people are stupid, and to get to the point that we are, does prove an ignorance.

Give me liberty or give me death.

Give your liberty, or give your life.

We are on the same page with the NWO on that point. The same choices.

[Shockman]

What I was trying to say about Paul, is actually quoted in that very video.

Elections are not decided by the voters, they are decided by the vote counters. I maintain that he can NOT win. Maybe with 100% of the vote. Maybe.

[Shockman]

According to the poll attached to this thread at this point in time. 20% of us have a basic understanding. This is good and shows an emergence.

Only when each of these people are in the same position can a non-emotional and therein legitimate opinion be derived using intelligence.

This shows that emotion is the leading factor in such a decision for the majority. This is what needs to change. Only non-emotional opinions are worth observation.

Hatred needs roots. To even respond to the poll with a vote (something I have not done) needs a frame of reference that does not exist. the fact that Obama is the only one to hold the highest office makes the fact that he has the most votes in this poll unfortunately predictable. It is a condition of conditioning. If it wasn't, I would not hesitate to call those people stupid. It is ignorance though, and that is curable. You can not fix stupid.

[sleepy]

Then you have my consent to call me stupid, but just this time, maybe.

Hated will always have roots in emotions when emotions are responses to injury, and yes, Obama has injured my lifestyle beyond the matter of Uniformity of taxation while the remaining candidates threaten to offer absolutely nothing new to The People other than their prejudices, or the prejudices of The People.

The Constitution is great until it offends somebody, but then the candidates are too often above The Constitution. They swear The Oath to uphold it and then dismiss it in their administration while taking advantage of the inaccessibility of legal defense to avoid being contradicted by said Constitution.

[Shockman]

It's the logic that drives your statement, not the emotion. That's what I meant. Passion is OK in a statement, which is derived from the emotion, when the logic exists.

[chitownpinball]

I am still for Obama....I dont make over $250,000/year and its clear Romney and the Republicans only care about the rich and super rich. I could really care less about smokers, smoking is ridiculous and disgusting.

Have you heard about the new voter ID laws? Good LORD. They are basically trying to kill the poor, minority, and elderly vote in half the states by imposing a law (the republicans are doing this) that requires a photo ID to vote. Guess who doesnt have a photo ID or money to buy one? Yep.

Either way, "Obama Care" as the republicans have pinned it isnt as bad as every one makes it out to be. The cost of health care in this country is sky rocketing due to the obese and THE SMOKERS. A lot of these people rely on government programs already, why not make them get some coverage?

Its a sad state of affairs when people vote based off their religious values and not with their country in mind. They care more about themselves and their guns then they do the sick, poor, and helpless. I can only hope Romney says some more stupid shit to get him in some hot water and I can sleep well at night.

[sleepy]

The cost of health care in this country is sky rocketing due to the obese and THE SMOKERS.

No, that's a myth for generating stiff tobacco taxes. I just got through a California Ballot measure which would have raised the tobacco taxes for cancer research (Prop 29) and I bothered to look up the official statistics provided by The American Cancer Society to The State of California.

There are more than three times the number of non-tobacco cancer cases and twice as many non-tobacco cancer deaths costing our government than those of the smokers, which is why they don't mind screwing us for excessive taxes. In fact the American Cancer Society now states that 1 in 2 Americans will be diagnosed with cancer (50%), but there are only 20% of Americans who smoke. Added to that, the number of annual cancer deaths in California from smoking in 2012 is expected to be 16,397 deaths out of a State smoking population of 4.4 Million people.

At that rate it will take 100 years for cancer to kill 30% of the smokers. And 300 years to kill 100% of the smokers.

The national death rate from so-called Second Hand Smoke is reported at 3,500/yr. out of a national smoking population of more than Sixty Million smokers who inhale directly. That is an annual death rate of Three One-Thousandths of One Percent, and 77.9% of smokers Do Not Develop Cancer by the age of 85.

So I have to believe that cancer is a matter of personal responsibility based on family history.

Now, If the taxes were the same as for anything else and we all shared the same taxes as Our Constitution Requires, then I wouldn't mind, but the propagandists
are using death as an excuse for taxes.

And the reality is, those who are reported to die from tobacco exposure, including those blamed on Second Hand Smoke are less than 1 percent of We the People, but that figure could easily be from among the poor and destitute due to other causes and likely is, but we aren't hearing any proposals from our representatives on what they are going to do about Poverty other than make more dependents and more taxes, and then cut them from the welfare rolls.

So the new answer is mandatory health insurance as new taxes, but to cure The Deficit and not the problem.

[Shockman]

"So I have to believe that cancer is a matter of personal responsibility based on family history."

The sentence makes no sense to me but that is not to say your point does not. Tendency is a genetic trait, but personal responsibility is not based on that. People need to come to the understanding that personal responsibility is not based on government, formal education, advertising, which not only belongs, but is the most prolific conveyors of what your personally responsibility should be, religion, or anything else, other than humanity. Liberty.

Regardless of the wording, I agree that this case, like all others are based on what the government can further acquire for themselves. The Government is low on the totem pole, just above we the people, but they are an instrument, bought and paid for, of the higher levels which includes corporations, national and world banks, the UN, and a surprisingly small number of families. You can find a small smattering of ideas that would actually help we the people in government, but above that you will not find a one.

The people fear the government. This is the definition of tyranny. There is only one government. There is only one party. If there was two, there would be a 100% change of the house, senate, and executive staff, each election, to members of that party.

What did it take for Nazi Germany to be stopped in it's objectives? There is still hope for the US citizens. The Germans are happier as citizens now, not just the rest of the world.

I don't care who it is. Terrorists, another country, citizens, ETs, God, Satan, nature. The worst of the worst is not on that list.

[RockWizard]

The current campaigns are driving me nuts. Obama - that phony - has the balls to have the flag behind him! The SOB HATES this country and will NOT recognize it. Hell....he was holding his crotch when the national anthem was being played. He has the media in his back pocket. They treat him like he's a king. Birth certificate(yeah...right), all his records are locked tight. His other commie cohorts - Reed, Specter, Clinton, Pelosi(boy...I HATE that bitch), they all need to go. His wife - how many trip does she need to take on OUR money? And honestly...does she need 400 people to go with her? I'd love to see Obama make a speech WITHOUT a teleprompter. He'd sound like a busy signal.

Romney - when is he going to show some balls? Fight back against your opponent.

Again.....the choices are horrible. But....I have to go with the one who is REALLY a citizen and respects the U. S.

Lets see.....the last two presidents I actually respected were Truman and Reagan. Been way too long. THIS SUCKS.

[sleepy]

Both candidates are buying the election, spending $100 million+ (Romney) to half a billion+(Obama).

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/polit...ign_08-07.html

Which then loses all credibility when they then pledge to cure the deficit/recession.

[Shockman]

For some, perhaps. Others would say you can't loose what you don't have.

Politicians credibility is a test of the peoples consciousness vs gullibility.

I find credibility only in definitive statements, not ideas or ideals.

For example,

I believe Bush, that they are working for a new world order.
I believe Kissinger, "military men as 'dumb, stupid animals to be used' as pawns for foreign policy"

George H Bush ... "I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
George H Bush ... "I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of [CIA] sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors."

President Andrew Jackson: 1829-1837 “You are a den of vipers! I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God I will rout you out. If the people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking system, there would be a revolution before morning.”

President Franklin Roosevelt: Nov. 21, 1933, “The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government since the days of Andrew Jackson.”

"When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical
Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of freedom to Americans..." "And so a lot of people say there's
too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it.
That's what we did in the announcement I made last weekend on the Housing Projects, about how
we're going to have weapon sweeps and more things like that to try to make the people feel safer
in their communities"--President Bill Clinton

"We just can’t trust the American people to make those types of choices … Government has to make those choices for people"...First Lady Hillary Clinton

"We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans"...President Bill Clinton

Only what come from the heart is credible.

[Shockman]

The 9/11 conspiracy is not so much that the attack was contrived to implement a suspension of the constitution and bill of rights, we certainly could have been attacked by outside forces, but that there is no indication that it would be beyond the US government, and that it fits the new world order to a tee.

F.E.M.A. camps ... "....and civil un-rest"
F.E.M.A. trains ... as if.
F.E.M.A. guillotines ... Why not firing squads, chemicals, and all the other more effective forms of mass murder? Organ harvest.
F.E.M.A. coffins ... 4 bodies in each ... for natural disaster purposes? Think about it. Trash if revolutionaries, and trash if victims of natural disaster?

[sleepy]

My, you hit me at an odd moment in my life. I've met a few of those folks of which you speak of.
Our candidates are Players, like actors. Exactly like the film, "The Prize" and the Edward G. Robinson character. And opposite the "Skull and Bones" fraternity. Skull and Bones is a shake-out stunt for recruiting Players who are trusted not to talk about the ruling classes. The ruling classes operate as Players.

They will say anything while wearing their phony faces, as long as they win for 'the team'. Obama is a Player. Romney and Ryan are Players. They hang together when no one is looking.

And the FEMA camps? I've been saying that there are a few people in possession of synthetic telepathy since I was born in the 1950's, but the Players (the Edisons/Shockleys/Teslas/Einsteins in an unholy self-alliance as ex-noblemen; Old Money) have made a point of educating this nation's university students to believe that anyone who mentions synthetic telepathy or ruling class families is crazy, the same as the "Skull and Bones" are pledged to disavow the sanity of those of us on the outside who tell the truth about what the "in-crowd" ruling class has been doing to The People. Well sure.

Did anyone else catch the fact that the actor Ricardo Montalban died about two days before Obama was elected. That sort of thing doesn't matter of course.
There is absolutely no connection between the two persons.

But take a good hard look at both of them, and throw in Jackson Browne while you're at it because that bugger has been on my ass for 34 years over borrowing my tunes.
I'm not going to lie about that. I've lost sleep over it, and they (my people) have made a damn shitty point of making sure I am disrupted from getting up.

This is not about my issues. The connection is all about their misrepresentations as ruling class.

[Shockman]

I'm ignorant of the Edisons, and Einstein, in that aspect, and know little of Shockley, but the transistor.

I believe Tesla definitely does not fit though. I believe he was firmly on the ground, on the other side of the fence.

[sleepy]

And that is exactly what you are supposed to think; that Tesla was a good man.

But at the same time, Tesla was developing a frequency resonator for the earth's core, possibly as a weapon. And it worked, resulting in massive earthquakes when the resonator was/is set to 60 Hz.
He developed this device while living in Colorado.

And then, how do you explain a man such as Tesla with his knowledge and gifts dying penniless in a populous New York City in spite of his tendencies as a loner, of which he had full power of while living in Colorado, as if he had absolutely no clue about the availability of gold and silver (Telluride, Colorado as an example: here gold is often found as a Telluride compound) even though a few of his inventions likely depended on those metals?

Remember, back then, our own U.S. government ran assay offices nationwide. We the people had the access to send the assays to Uncle Sam and be paid for the content, but of course when we produced the real deal and not fool's gold or other non-precious materials.

[sleepy]

And about Edison. He moved his movie production studios to Los Angeles and founded Hollywood in this area exactly due to the local availability of gold and silver needed for making film emulsions and photo paper, and the available sunny temperate weather.

Maybe he forgot to tell Tesla, or Tesla was in Colorado for the same reason.

[Shockman]

Tesla was not building a weapon. If he was, his facilities would not have been destroyed. It was being oversaw as a possible weapon. The intention was a wireless power grid, or individual power stations.

The copper industry killed Tesla's dream, when it became clear that 1, it was not a weapon, 2, he was on to something that would put GE out of business, and 3, the word 'free' was uttered by him.

This is just my understanding.

34:12 of Thrive says Tesla was backed by J P Morgan (he owned the copper) and pulled finance and burned down Tesla's plant. It does not get into why someone that was so into power lines (and anything money making) would back such a project, but it would not be hard to guess, nor hard to guess why Morgan did what he did when he did it.

[Ike Savage]

the way that voting really works starts with the dollar. anything that people spend a plurality on ultimately becomes a lobby, and all it takes is a small group of powerful lobbies to determine a major candidate. we've seen this over and over again throughout history, yet we love to bullshit ourselves with specious arguments such as 'this guy is more or less christian', 'this guy is going to take us back to how america used to be', 'this guy sounds tough and uncompromising against our alleged enemies' and on and on.

meanwhile, our crop and food industry is so f-ked up nowadays that we're growing huge amounts of subsidised crops like corn (or at least we were before this summer) and force-feeding them to an animal that hates corn (i.e. cattle) mainly so that we can indulge a health-debilitating obsession with fried meat patties, something that we certainly did not evolve upon eating. meanwhile, cow-flatulence from eating that shit has actually become a serious health hazard across the country, producing methane and organic-particle smogs that are bothering many a city. but screw it- mcdonald's and burger king is the american way, right?

in short, what we've got is a bunch of fool's gold and a deliberately simple-minded electorate to play upon succesfully. especially since 99% of the BS issues that come up on the campaign trail (abortion, gun control, gay marriage, pulling out of a hot spot) have no real relation to how the elected one performs. mostly what it comes down to is a chance to fling feces for free, howl like an agitated ape, and feel validated because you're rubbing elbows with millions of other agitated apes doing the same thing.

but again, it can't be pointed out enough times- what really counts is how you spend your dollar. because we could have any number of viable (if extreme) candidates, from noam chomsky and ralph nader to rush limbaugh and ann coulter, but people who are attached to their own personal luxury and privilege will always keep the choices very simple if they want to maintain their standing of living, and 99%+ of us want to do exactly that.

meanwhile, people who are saying that 'both candidates stink- why can't they ever give us someone good?' are pretty-much indulging themselves in a hyper-hypocritical display that surpasses even the standard model-- in effect, they're childishly holding out for some miracle candidate coming down the pike that has the power to suspend reality and natural law and freeze time for them in a way that will allow them to remain personally validated, unaware, and feeling good. but here's a hint, folks-- it ain't going to happen, and all you're doing by disassociating is to validate the process.

in the end, civilised man's main pursuit usually comes down to doing something that makes him feel good about himself, and elections are certainly no different. and children are people who have a strong urge to feel safe and validated, and most american voters are in effect children with no real understanding of the political process nor their own personal impact upon the election process.

we all need to look in the mirror IMO.

[Shockman]

Too metaphoric for me. I don't fully understand.

If you are saying it is child like to not understand the election process, and the impact of an individual vote, I think that is wrong. The deception is not aimed at children.

Who runs. I think that is generally more understood than you give people credit for.

Extreme viewpoints are one thing, but extremists are not a viable option. It might serve to be a slap in the face, as a wake up, though.

Not liking either does not mean what you generalize it to either. Never liking either is wise, because they are putting good money into being exactly what they are accusing the incumbent of being. When I hear a politician complaining about corruption, abuse of power, profiting, all I will ever here myself is 'give me a turn at it'.

Which is worse, a country that wants domination, wealth, and resources, and is open and honest about it. Or one that wants the same thing but are deceitful, claiming the opposite while striving for it. IMO the US government is the worse that has ever existed on earth and will ever exist. However what is the government, not the puppets you think is, though there is a rank and file there for sure.

[sleepy]

I think to reject both candidates is more a matter of *hoping* to prevent the continuation of governments which exist unto themselves against The People or on behalf of Others in spite of The People. In California, the State Constitution was written with the idea that The People are those in the First Person, those who mind their own business vs. others who trespass by their dependencies to a third party authority.

God was once the tool of Conquerors and Kings and Queens, but after The Revolution, the ruling classes had to drop the moniker.

It's the difference between our Rights versus the dictates against the First Person by erosion of our Rights.

And Shocky, you know it didn't sit well with me when in the early 1980's I once mentioned to 'Hollywood Folk' that, according to the encyclopedia, magnetic fields were attenuated by passing through hydrogen fluids, water, blood, etc., and that the difference in the magnetic fields after passing though, say, a human body full of fluids of varying densities, could be scanned as a means of providing a view inside the body of a patient.

Well, 'Mr. Hollywood' is connected to Universal NBC which is owned by G.E. who is credited with developing one of Tesla's magnetic theories into what we call the M.R.I.
(Magnetic Resonance Imaging). G.E. of course was founded by Edison, who also founded the city of Hollywood.

It didn't sit well with me that G.E. made a point of naming one of their portable M.R.I. units "The Tesla". Not when Tesla was reported to have died penniless while The Edisons are still pigs in this town and throughout the world, like J.P. Morgan.
Aliases and Players might have had something to do with Tesla's failure, else Tesla was also a Player.

The local folk made a point of parking one of their "Tesla" M.R.I. trailers at the local hospital where I frequently walk past.

And again, I'm not talking because of my issues. It's all about how the ruling class/Old Money do not act right............. .............

Hey Ike. The cows' flatulence produces natural gas and methane and smog because shit and piss is our source of petroleum, natural gas and ammonia production, all from the sewer pipe. The Gettys of the world get us coming and going while depending on internal combustion engines as our means of disposing of the tonnage of sewage produced every day, and yet the ruling class is still making up stuff about 'fossil fuels' and Arabia. Totally bogus.

Maybe the cows need to eat more Platinum and Rhodium?

[RockWizard]

Originally Posted by Shockman

"When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical
Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of freedom to Americans..." "And so a lot of people say there's
too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it.
That's what we did in the announcement I made last weekend on the Housing Projects, about how
we're going to have weapon sweeps and more things like that to try to make the people feel safer
in their communities"--President Bill Clinton

"We just can’t trust the American people to make those types of choices … Government has to make those choices for people"...First Lady Hillary Clinton

"We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans"...President Bill Clinton

Only what come from the heart is credible.

Bunch of damn control freaks. If I wanted this crap, I'd move to Russia or.....get in a time machine and be totally controlled by Hitler or Stalin.

Last time I checked, we elected these clowns, they're working for US. Lately, it sure seems like they making us feel like a bunch of incompetent boobs, or in a worse case, a bunch of lemmings. They know what is best for us....BULLSH*T.

Stop raising my taxes, forcing what's "right" for me, and please, do NOT be my dad. I had one of those, he's gone, don't need another. He taught me right from wrong, I'm a big boy now..... More and more, you have no say if you disagree what they say. Sorry...two sides to every story, and the ones in charge - you're NOT always right.

[sleepy]

Actually RockWizard, we've been cows.

As The Who once said, the 'heroes' are used.

Our petroleum is from our own shit and the candidates and Our President, they pretend not to notice while they brandish their guns in the direction of Arab ringers playing the fall guys in exchange for compensation to the Middle East.
Only the people get burned.

Even my old man pretended to work for 'Shivrin'. The Rockefellers (pronounced raw-guy-fillers) are definitely Players who love their puns, but try to detect their aliases if you can.

I once mentioned that my family on my Mother's Flickinger/Porter side owned an Oil Well Annuity based on a rig which is in fact drilling on the very spot where once sat the family's former 150 year old outhouse. High on a hill in western Pennsylvania.
Abarta Oil (pronounced I-Fart-A) was the agent, and when the oil ran low, Abarta sold their licence to Snyder Bros. who now pumps the site for natural gas.

You can Google either Abarta or Snyder Bros. if you like.

[Shockman]

.....
...
Stop raising my taxes, forcing what's "right" for me, and please, do NOT be my dad. I had one of those, he's gone, don't need another. He taught me right from wrong, I'm a big boy now..... More and more, you have no say if you disagree what they say. Sorry...two sides to every story, and the ones in charge - you're NOT always right.

It is questionable as to whether the founders ever intended labor to be taxed. Most think the intention was that it would not be. Either way, there is no law that says you need to pay personal federal income taxes. Those that have fought in court have either won (jury), or have been denied their request to see such a law, and lost in an unjust miscarriage in the form of summery judgment. There is no law.

The intention was that the 'owners' of the earths natural resources be taxed as if they did not actually own the earths resources. Like 90%

The dollar is down (97%). The gold and silver is up. This devaluation could also be considered a tax. A 97% tax. It could loose another 97% from here.

[Shockman]

double posted

[sleepy]

For damn sure, a single private residence should not be subject to property taxes at the risk of losing one's home when one cannot pay the tax, perhaps due to the fact that most private residences bear no revenue to justify the tax. In L.A. the property taxes pay for education, whether or not the homeowner actually has any children at all.

Personally, I favor direct school taxes. I think there is way too much "free education" available and the result is that too many people take no personal responsibility for their children. Too many parents think they have a family as a free-for-all, not even realizing that they as apartment renters are still paying the property taxes which are attached to the cost of their rent.

How quickly that would change if Mom and Pop had to pay the taxes for their children's education. Just a thought though.

[Shockman]

At least those taxes are on the books, are enforceable, and are local. Also each municipality can choose the terms of penalty for noncompliance, and usually increases are indirectly voted for (as levies).

I also believe certain properties, Owning a big natural pond, river front, land that could otherwise house many more families, and in-your-face extravagance should pay very high taxes, and they usually do.

I have voted twice for increased property taxes as a property owner. There has also been times that I have voted no when the need (school levy) was just as great, but had no confidence, or saw waste.

I am not anti-taxes. I am not even anti-income tax. I am anti-theft. Spent well, especially in light of the fact that we almost all do it anyway, though it never is, income tax could be a good thing. As it is. No laborer should ever file.

The law defines income as profit and gain. The supreme court defines income as profit and gain. Many peoples' income is profit and gain. But the lion's share of people, like me, their income is not profit and gain.