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  #1  
Old 05-07-2009, 02:49 PM
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Default VPLauncher.dat -> update?

The actual available VPLauncher.dat is a little outdated. Since Roland Scholz, author of the VPLauncher frontend and the VPLauncher.dat file, doesn't seem to be present and interested anymore, it's time to think about if and how to update the VPLauncher.dat, i. e. for further use in frontends as VPLauncher, VP-Man, ... .

So we need some information how to.

I think we can use a standard file editor as Microsoft Editor.

What are the different table entries seperated by \ ?

I. e.:

Addams Family - Addams Family Gold\v7.1\$838571CB\PacDude / Boris\1992\Midway Mfg. Co., a subsidiary of WMS Industries, Inc.\VPinMame\Addams Family Addams Family Gold7.1.jpg/the_addams_family-1992-f-1.jpg/the_addams_family-1992-f-2.jpg\TAF_Rules\y\\

Does that mean:

Table name\version number\?\author\realese year\company\table category?\screenshot file name?\flyer file name?\flyer2 file name?\rules file name?\?\?\

Anyone interested and willing to help to update?

Let's see and then I decide for myself if and how much I'm disposed to engage in that.
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Old 05-07-2009, 06:29 PM
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This grabbing of other peoples property must be contagious.

Makes you wonder what happened to the times when people still used to ask the person who owns something for fixes and updates instead of just taking it and doing with it whatever they think needs to be done,...
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:49 AM
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Used to run VPLauncher for VP Tables years ago and I'm certain Roland would love to have the dat file and pack files updated, if you can't reach him.

I spent a few months updating the dat file, screenshots, rules and flyers packs back in 2004 and he was very helpful.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPurpleHaze View Post
I spent a few months updating the dat file, screenshots, rules and flyers packs back in 2004 and he was very helpful.
That was exactly my point. Everyone who knows Roland knows that he is an out-and-out friendly and always-helpful guy. Somebody who would never say no if something can be improved. So besides the fact that it is simply a matter of courtesy and politeness to ask the owner/creator of something for permission first in case a third party would like to make changes to it, it would also be highly inappropriate to just do this over his head and behind his back since he would never stand in the way of progress,...

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Old 05-08-2009, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPurpleHaze View Post
Used to run VPLauncher for VP Tables years ago and I'm certain Roland would love to have the dat file and pack files updated, if you can't reach him.

I spent a few months updating the dat file, screenshots, rules and flyers packs back in 2004 and he was very helpful.
I still didn't try to reach Roland because I wanted to check common interests in the VPLauncher.dat and possible willingness of others to help to update it first. If there was no, there's no need to ask him at all. I remember Roland as a very nice and helpful guy. We had some fun in testing/trying vp+ duels.

Please delete or shut this thread! I don't want to continue. It now seems to be senseless for me to try to start anything new here without the fear of unsubstantiated accusations, as one staffer must have desperately decided to try to be on search for continuous conflicts with me.

Have a nice weekend!
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Old 05-09-2009, 11:18 AM
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Yeah, right.

First its "The guy is gone - lets rack the balls ourselves" and then we are supposed to believe that he was 'going to be asked later'.

(Sure thing! Perfectly explains why one would ask for infos on 'how to' here instead of asking the author in the 1st place too!)


But then the 'unsubstantiated accusations' bit is quite amusing too. Since when is wondering whatever happened to the time when it was customary to ask somebody for permission rather than simply taking matters into own hands an 'accusation'? Now of course if somebody has a guilty conscience then they might indeed have a good reason for interpreting it that way, but when that shoes fits it would obviously not be 'unsubstantiated' at all. Therefore they have no right to complain either.


But my absolute favorite is definitely the 'conflicts-searching' bit. Coming from somebody who not so long ago started a solid little bitchfest about my person by constructing a wild nonsensical conspiracy theory under the pretense of alledgedly feeling 'harassed' by a perfectly harmless signature this is outright hilarious. Then add to this that the harmless comment "...we used to call it Wave or NewWave or WavePunk. (Hence the thread title.)" in my 'Wave Time' thread immediately netted me the line "Oh, sorry, it seems I badly injured the thread title. So I guess it's better to keep out of this thread next. I started another thread." even though i wasnt even talking to that guy and you probably begin to see why i think this 'conflict-searching' line is so comical. All this together is *almost* enough material for a comic episode,...although in reality it is of course rather pathetic than really 'funny', a certain amusement-value notwithstanding,...


Nice Weekend from me too,...
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:01 AM
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Default Definitely a needed project!!

Been out of touch for a while when my XP distro shat itself, and took Linux down with it.... Almost back....

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiholzer
The actual available VPLauncher.dat is a little outdated. Since Roland Scholz, author of the VPLauncher frontend and the VPLauncher.dat file, doesn't seem to be present and interested anymore, it's time to think about if and how to update the VPLauncher.dat, i. e. for further use in frontends as VPLauncher, VP-Man, ... .

So we need some information how to.

I think we can use a standard file editor as Microsoft Editor.

What are the different table entries seperated by \ ?

I. e.:

Addams Family - Addams Family Gold\v7.1\$838571CB\PacDude / Boris\1992\Midway Mfg. Co., a subsidiary of WMS Industries, Inc.\VPinMame\Addams Family Addams Family Gold7.1.jpg/the_addams_family-1992-f-1.jpg/the_addams_family-1992-f-2.jpg\TAF_Rules\y\\

Does that mean:

Table name\version number\?\author\realese year\company\table category?\screenshot file name?\flyer file name?\flyer2 file name?\rules file name?\?\?\

Anyone interested and willing to help to update?

Let's see and then I decide for myself if and how much I'm disposed to engage in that.
I'm in!

While working on the gamelist updater tool, I realised that the database really needs to be brought up to date, but I also realised why it hasn't - A LOT of work needs to be done, tables and versions collected, names standardised, and if 'table info' is missing, then version authors must be contacted, version descriptors found, Manufacturer, year of release researched......ARRGGGHHH!

VPL uses CRC32 checksums to match VPTs with a DB entry. If an unknown CRC32 is found, all VPL can do is use the name that the author has used in the 'table Info' fields in VP. There is no convention and caused me no end of headaches.

Yogi the structure you have outlined is correct (first ? is $32 bit cyclical redundancy check or CRC32, last ? is 'favourite', others front end images), but we'll go insane very quickly if we try to use a text editor. I think a (small and targeted) special purpose tool would be extremely useful - perhaps a web app to allow many people to contribute, and a client app for contributors to run and then submit results to central.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixx
This grabbing of other peoples property must be contagious.

Makes you wonder what happened to the times when people still used to ask the person who owns something for fixes and updates instead of just taking it and doing with it whatever they think needs to be done,...
I think that's a bit presumptuous, Phoenixx!

Yogi is speculating on the viability of a project for updating a vital piece of Front-End infrastructure, and looking for encouragement and support. He certainly didn't rule out contacting the original author, as is customary with other artifacts like tables. I certainly didn't contact Roland for permission to use the existing database at the heart of my 3DArcade tool, but I did give credit to VPL for providing it, along with instructions on how to obtain it.
Don't jump the gun man!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonpurplehaze
Used to run VPLauncher for VP Tables years ago and I'm certain Roland would love to have the dat file and pack files updated, if you can't reach him.

I spent a few months updating the dat file, screenshots, rules and flyers packs back in 2004 and he was very helpful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiholzer
I still didn't try to reach Roland because I wanted to check common interests in the VPLauncher.dat and possible willingness of others to help to update it first. If there was no, there's no need to ask him at all. I remember Roland as a very nice and helpful guy.
Good Point Yogi - Phoenixx I think your judgment in this matter may have been a little hasty....

Anyway - Yogi if you're still keen on doing this, I'm ready to join you. If you can contact Roland, I'm happy to write some software to facilitate a multi-user contributory environment.

Requirements gathering starts now.
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meecro Hyperion View Post



I think that's a bit presumptuous, Phoenixx!

Yogi is speculating on the viability of a project for updating a vital piece of Front-End infrastructure, and looking for encouragement and support. He certainly didn't rule out contacting the original author, as is customary with other artifacts like tables.
I see where youre coming from, really, i do, but still it doesnt make any sense to me.

I mean why would anybody try to gather people for a project before they even know whether the person that needs to be asked for consent (in this case Roland) will be giving that consent? THAT would be presumptuous in my opinion. Shouldnt asking the owner therefore be the first thing to do because of that reason alone?

Furthermore there is absolutely nothing in the wording of his initial posting that would suggest that he indeed intended to ever seek Rolands consent. On the contrary, the way how it was written suggests nothing but the opposite, not least because of the intro, where he explicitely represents the opinion that Roland is no longer present and no longer interested in his property.

Therefore i dont think Roland was ever going to be asked for anything. Much like AJ and his VPForums Roland was considered gone and not interested in his property anymore, and the wording of the posting in fact states just that. Hence i dont think it was out of line for me to wonder whatever happened to the time when it was still customary to ask the owner of something for permission rather than just taking matters into own hands either. After all it was exactly the same "hes gone - lets do it ourselves" approach certain other people took just recently with regards to AJs property. And it was also not out of line for me to consider the response that Roland was 'going to be asked later' to be a lie in order to save face, simply because all evidence, logic and common sense leaves no other conclusion. After all the words in his posting are all there is to work with, and they just do not suggest that Roland was going to be asked. Quite on the contrary, actually.

Now since im not infallible i might of course be wrong. Perhaps partially, perhaps entirely. But all things considered i just dont think that i am. But then what do i matter anyway, if the database is to be updated then Roland is the man to see. What i say or believe is completely irrelevant in this case, and yes, if Roland gives his O.K. i would of course be willing to help to the best of my abilities too if necessary. After all VPLauncher is part of the VIP too, which means an updated database would in a way help to make the VIP better as well,...
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:31 PM
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P.S.: If i seem a little bit touchy when it comes to things like that, you know whom to thank.

Its just that i consider Roland a friend, just like AJ, and i cant just stand idly by when i think somebody is going to disrespect my friends.


Also, Mr. Yogiholzer has kind of a 'history' for doing such things, for example i remember one time he thought i wouldnt update the VIP anymore so instead of just asking me he went ahead and tried to replace it with a solution of his own. And then there was of course the thing with the pictures galery, perhaps you should ask him about that one too. This action here looked very similar in nature, and thats just not how you go about things like that. Even if it may appear so to some, but the people you meet in the internet are not just virtual persons that merely exist in your computers memory. They are living breathing beings and thats how they have to be treated. If you disrepect them, (or somebodies friends), they might bite you, so you better dont disrespect them,...
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Old 05-11-2009, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixx View Post
P.S.: If i seem a little bit touchy when it comes to things like that, you know whom to thank.

Its just that i consider Roland a friend, just like AJ, and i cant just stand idly by when i think somebody is going to disrespect my friends.


Also, Mr. Yogiholzer has kind of a 'history' for doing such things, for example i remember one time he thought i wouldnt update the VIP anymore so instead of just asking me he went ahead and tried to replace it with a solution of his own. And then there was of course the thing with the pictures galery, perhaps you should ask him about that one too. This action here looked very similar in nature, and thats just not how you go about things like that. Even if it may appear so to some, but the people you meet in the internet are not just virtual persons that merely exist in your computers memory. They are living breathing beings and thats how they have to be treated. If you disrepect them, (or somebodies friends), they might bite you, so you better dont disrespect them,...
Yes, I always steal from people! You're right! Thanks for this reply! I just posted an official apology and an offer to get along further and you don't have anything better to do to post this runs.

You seem to want to enlarge the conflict. That's absolutely absurd/ridiculous.

About the gallery: I asked Jive for permission first and I got his permission to use his collected pics. The unneeded following short trouble I wasn't responsible for.

About the VIP: You really threatened to draw back the VIP, so I simply offered a simple alternative. I didn't use anything of your method and you can't blame me for anything. It's just that simple. And you refuse to admit that I recommend your VIP since long now.

These examples show you the 'hate?', Phoenixxx seems to have against me. But I still don't see any reason.

Too bad, but I now don't see any furher chance to reconcile things with Phoenixx.

I just wanted to reply in the VPLauncher.dat -> update? thread, but this post is an affront without previous example once again.
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Old 05-11-2009, 05:50 PM
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I only used VPLauncher for a short time after I found Visual Pinball. Once I started to make tables and to save many versions of my WIP tables, the frontend no longer was useful for me.

I remember the snake or Cobra working on the dat file update once..... But my question is..... Why would the dat file be something that belonged to anyone, it's not the program..... It's just a dat file.

BTW, Yogi, look at the time of Phoenixx' last post....
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Old 05-11-2009, 06:02 PM
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Why would the dat file be something that belonged to anyone, it's not the program..... It's just a dat file.
Why does the script in your original belong to you? Its not the program, its just a script.

Why do the images in your original belong to you? Its not the program, its just a bunch of images.

Why do we have modding rules that forbid unauthorized modding?

Why do modding rules protect people who just take everything without permission themselves?

Why am i asking these questions?

Where is the pizza i ordered two hours ago?
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Old 05-11-2009, 06:16 PM
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I don't seem to understand. I'm sorry, but I'm probaybly too dumb or it's already too late here today. I'm very tired.

So or so, I didn't ever intend to use and change the VPlauncher.dat without to ask Roland first.

Thanks and have a good night! Please PM me if necessary.
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:18 PM
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Phoenixx, I also don't understand your reply..... I'm also sure that you asked everyone for permission to use the font files that are included in the VIP.

Isn't the dat.file, just the information collected for tables. I mean it's not the actual VPLauncher software. Besides, it was last updated by people other than Roland, because Roland said he was done with updating the datfiles. This is not even a point, since no one is actually doing it yet and anyone willing to do this would probably have contacted Roland anyway, so the whole argument is asinine to begin with.
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:52 PM
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The font files, dear Bob, are free to download, there is no EULA for them, no discernable ownership, and, and this is probaly the most important part, i never intended to alter them in any way shape or form.

If there were an EULA to consider or if there were any people to ask for permission you can be damn sure that i would have done that. Because i have made sure that everything contained in the VIP is 100% conform with possible restrictions.


The VPLauncher DAT on the other hand is Rolands private property, there is nothing in the VPLauncher.txt that grants the right to distribute the program or alter the DAT without permission, and whether or not he is present in any internetforum is entirely irrelevant. And the fact that he had help before doesnt change anything about that fact either.


I will leave it at that because you as an original author know exactly what im talking about. Besides, you cant have it both ways. You cant insist on modding rules to protect people who gladly take stuff that isnt theirs to begin with themselves, but pretend like it was nothing if somebody wants to lay hands on the property of people who really do own something. It just doesnt work that way, its either this or that, the one or the other. I said that a thousand times already and i dont think that this is too difficult to understand. In fact im sure that everyone understands this perfectly well, and that some people just prefer to play dumb when it comes to that topic,...
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:10 PM
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BTW, it seems we have once again slightly lost the focus here.

Since certain people apparently expect me to defend myself, could somebody please tell me what exactly *i* have done wrong?

You know, just so i know why i have to defend myself,...
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
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BTW, it seems we have once again slightly lost the focus here.

Since certain people apparently expect me to defend myself, could somebody please tell me what exactly *i* have done wrong?

You know, just so i know why i have to defend myself,...
I guess I don't know what the dat file is, but I thought the dat file is info collected on the tables people have in their folder only, unless they download a special datfile that has the missing information filled in to the file. To me, this has nothing to do with the VPLauncher program that one downloads. Maybe you have never used it and don't understand what I'm saying or what is being done or maybe I don't understand.

You know there are screenshot packs and no one would ask every table author for permission to create a screenshot of their table for the pack, so one does need to use a bit of selective intelligence when doing this stuff. I know you have never agreed with many of the usage rules of the community, but overall, I think VPF had excellent rules for using other peoples work. It is/was always based on respect and for some reason.... A few people have always had issues with this....

You asked what you have done wrong.... Yogi is one of the communities special people, if you want to attack the beloved Yogi, then you should expect to have eggs and tomatoes thrown at you or even a few boo's or jeers. That's just the way it is. Yogi has achieved a certain status and if you want to quarrel with Yogi, then he'll be the crowd favorite and you'll be the bad guy.... Once again, this is just the way it is.... Some things in life can't be figured out on paper, you just have to learn them as you go. I think if the community had a mayor, it would be Yogi.

Moral of the story.... Don't throw stones at Yogi, because someone will pick them up and throw them back at you.
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:06 PM
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I see.

So the point (at least in your opinion) is not who actually does something wrong.

Well, that explains a hell of a lot.

Thank god i have learned how to throw stones too.

In fact if somebody throws stones at me for nothing i will gladly throw back a couple of rocks.

You know, just to pay my debts. You may keep the change.
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:13 PM
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I see.

So the point (at least in your opinion) is not who actually does something wrong.
In this case, I don't think Yogi did anything wrong and yet, you started throwing stones at him.... Only a masochist would throw stones at Yogi.
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:23 PM
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You made your point Bob, still i think it is bullshit.


And before i forget; this so-called 'community' can go to hell in a handbasket for all i care.

The fake-VPF stunt was definitely one too much for me, and thats why i dont consider myself to be part of this fine 'community' any longer.

My efforts will only go towards helping new people to get into virtual pinballing anymore.

What the 'community' does or thinks is no longer my concern.

I answer only to one person and that is Jon. And should PN ever close its doors then i am gone as well.

Just so there are no missunderstandings,...
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:44 PM
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And on a final note, who cries for me when i get attacked for no reason at all?

Argentina?

The 'Community'?

Pfft,...


At least i do have a solid reason when i question somebodies course of action, you know, as opposed to harmless signatures and harmless comments that werent even addressing me,...
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Phoenixx View Post
And on a final note, who cries for me when i get attacked for no reason at all?

Argentina?

The 'Community'?

Pfft,...


At least i do have a solid reason when i question somebodies course of action, you know, as opposed to harmless signatures and harmless comments that werent even addressing me,...
There are no guarantees in life that someone will cry for you....

One person's solid reasons is just another person's fertilizer.
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:09 PM
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One person's solid reasons is just another person's fertilizer.
This is again bull because either a reason is solid or it is not. The end.


Now since you insist, lets cut the crap and get serious. Go to the initial post and bring me at least one line that would suggest, even remotely, that Roland was going to be asked later.

Then i will go to the initial post and bring you at least three lines that suggest exactly the opposite.

Age before beauty, so you go first. If you can actually back up the claim that what i say is merely 'fertilizer' i will cancel my account on the spot and never come back here again.

Time to put up or shut up.
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:01 AM
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I still don't see the information that is extracted from the .vpt files when VPLauncher is run as belonging to Roland.... Aren't the updaters just gathering information to insert into the datfile? The dat file doesn't come with this info in the VPLauncher download (that I remember) and if the VP Table Info page isn't filled out, then VPLauncher can't get this info, so people have created this info and they call it the Updated Visual Pinball data base or an updated VPLauncher.dat, so you can download it. It looks to me like anyone can create this file, I guess you couldn't call it the "Official" dat file, but it would be a more up to date datfile then the one that is offered in a download at the VPLauncher site. Maybe "you" could explain it to me what it really is, since I'm not very techy.

I still think this is all meaningless, since Roland would be contacted and he would give permission
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:04 AM
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This is again bull because either a reason is solid or it is not. The end.

This is perhaps the dumbest thing you have ever posted....
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:14 AM
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This is perhaps the dumbest thing you have ever posted....
Interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing.

I wonder, if i were to ask for an example in which a reason can be both solid and not solid at the same time, (btw. i think in physics such a state is being called 'supersolidity'), would we get to see more than a desert-sand/wind/tumbleweed/crickets-chirping scene this time?

I doubt it,...

(Not that im not curious, but i love Uncle Bob too much as to ask him such an unfair question,...)
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:44 AM
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You're quick to respond to the bullshit, but don't respond to the actual questions I asked about the VPLauncher.dat file, hence I must deduce you really only wanted to stir the shit up in Yogi's thread and don't really give a rats ass about the dat file.

I'm not saying you don't have the right to piss up a thread, but don't try to pretend that you're being righteous when you're really just pissin' on someone.

I like this place.
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Old 05-12-2009, 03:07 AM
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You're quick to respond to the bullshit, but don't respond to the actual questions I asked...
Thats odd, i thought the same thing about you.

You sure have a lot of stuff to tell but when i ask you to explain any of it there is only static.


If i thought that you were really interested in hearing about the DAT then i would have given you an answer. (As a matter of fact i already did.) But as long as you keep talking trash for talking trash sake, dont expect me to take any of what you say seriously.

P.S.: Your deduction abilities leave a lot to be desired. Unfortunately its not the only thing.

Au Revoir,...and yes, i like this place too,...
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:42 AM
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If i thought that you were really interested in hearing about the DAT then i would have given you an answer...

Bullshit.... You don't know what it is either.....
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:24 PM
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Question to Self: Why do you keep wasting your time with this?

Answer to Self: Good question, i really dont know.

Note to Self: Say what you want to say but do not ever discuss it. Refrain from feeding people who couldnt care less whether they actually make sense, let them talk with themselves until they loose interest. Counter impertinence with arrogance and reward nonsense with silence.
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