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  #1  
Old 03-13-2006, 11:07 PM
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Default Hope for the Future

Come Easter, a new version of Future Pinball is due. While I hope that it gives us all renewed hope for the further development of Black’s toy I do have my doubts. Besides the promised ramps, will we finally have the ability to create and import models of our own? Will we also have any of the requested and begged for flexibility the vast majority of us long for? Or will Black, as has been his habit in the past, ignore his users and continue to stick to his tunnel-vision view of what FP should become?

Now I doubt if we’ll hear anything from Black himself, but his henchman Leon will surely castigate me yet again for daring to speak against his hero. Leon will be sure to point out the Future Pinball is Black’s and no one else’s project, and that no one has the right to demand a thing. I don’t completely agree. I feel that when someone offers a program of any sort to the public, they have the responsibility to listen to and seriously consider new features and ideas. And if a developer says he will include a feature, then he should include that feature. It seems as if Black’s ideal for pinball is fairly recent, SS and beyond, him not being a fan of EMs or earlier eras, which is his right.

But I assume Black’s goal in creating FP was to provide a 3D method of recreating pinball games, as well as originals in the modern style. He may accomplish part of that with the promised ramps, since authors have found a work-around for the lack of DMD support. But I still have what I feel is an honest request, walls that can drop and rise, which has been denied. My question again: are dropping walls possible in Future Pinball or not, given the Newton engine? One simple answer could quiet me, but since an answer hasn’t been offered, I have to believe Black is of the opinion such walls are not needed. So, why are there dropping targets?

What I believe, I’m sad to say, ir that since I’m not part of Black’s in-crowd, I have not gotten dropping walls, nor Black’s once promised flipperless template. Because by no stretch of the imagination can the Ballyhoo cabinet now provided be considered a flipperless template by anyone who understands pinball. Granted, flipperless templates don’t equate to “modern” pinball. But neither do the Mushroom Triggers which Leon needed for his recent 50/50 table release. So it appears that if you’re a pal of Black’s, a 1965 Bally can be considered “modern”. I’m not at all upset that mushroom triggers are included, but I do have to wonder why dropping walls seem to be outlawed. Again, yes, it’s Black’s program, so he can do what he pleases. But if he expects and wants to see Future Pinball as popular as possible, both his thinking and Future Pinball need to be more flexible.

This isn’t only about a flipperless template that was promised but not delivered, or about dropping walls. This is about listening to loyal users of his program and giving them what they want. Will the Easter version provide us model importing, improved physics, and realistic ball movement, or will it once again disappoint his small band of FP authors who are begging for more freedom to create the tables they dream of making? Black has always been close-mouthed, but now is the time for him to explain to his loyal users just what they can expect, and what they will never see, beyond no VPM support. If Black ignores his users much longer, it might not matter what the future holds.
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Old 03-13-2006, 11:51 PM
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I could save a lot of time if I had a staff to post for me. I'm accepting applications for the 'Destruk Public Relations Committee' - send me a PM. The less time I have to spend on forums and commenting, or participating, the more time I can use in my secret lair working on tables.
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Old 03-14-2006, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destruk
I could save a lot of time if I had a staff to post for me. I'm accepting applications for the 'Destruk Public Relations Committee' - send me a PM. The less time I have to spend on forums and commenting, or participating, the more time I can use in my secret lair working on tables.
I'd consider applying, but then I'd miss your insightful and diplomatic viewpoint. I'm still waiting for the initial release of the Destruk Open Source Pinball Kit.
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Old 03-14-2006, 12:35 AM
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FYI - The first person that posts a "sigh" will get bitch-slapped.

I use to have a staff to post for me, but they were too nice... So I had to bitch-slap them.

Hmmm.... I seem to be slaphappy tonight.
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Old 03-14-2006, 12:39 AM
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/me slaps bob, just to keep him happy
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:06 AM
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Hey Postie! My old staff buddy.... Still slapping me
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:35 AM
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aww Bob, your such a big sweetie
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Old 03-17-2006, 07:48 PM
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I wait and see what is released. I'm not trying to be pessimistic or optimistic, I just have a wait and see attitude. It'd be nice though to be able to use an ATI card below a 9800 Pro with the program...
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Old 03-18-2006, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratech
I wait and see what is released. I'm not trying to be pessimistic or optimistic, I just have a wait and see attitude. It'd be nice though to be able to use an ATI card below a 9800 Pro with the program...
ATI's underperform N'Vidia cards with OpenGL and it doesn't matter if it's Doom3 or Quake4 or FP.
It's the fault of ATI's drivers.
So, perhaps you should wait and see if ATI will ever fix their OpenGL drivers.
This is not "jumping to the defence" of FP but, stating what is a well known fact.
Check any ATI .V. N'Vidia comparison test that does DX and OGL and you will see for yourself.
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Old 03-18-2006, 12:43 PM
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That sounds true, from what I have seen from the two.
The thing is though that FP just don't perform well on nVidias either, unless they are so powerful that they have resources to waste.
I thought I read that he had 16bpp working correctly. That would make it work faster than 32bpp even in ogl, wouldn't it?

What is funny to me is that someone would say Doom3, Quake4 and FP in the same breath. You have underperformance, and then you have FP.
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Old 03-18-2006, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockman
You have underperformance, and then you have FP.
And then you have people either too stupid or lazy to tweak settings.
FP runs fine on my kids Athlon 1.4 Ghz with a GF4 MX440.
Not top of the line there.
So spare me the BS.
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Old 03-18-2006, 06:35 PM
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Tweak settings!
Why didn't I think of that?

I have a P3 1 gig with a GF3 and can get it to run good enough to play with 'tweaked' settings, I made a long post about tweaking settings, you can not tell me much about tweaked settings. I'll spend the first half of an hour if I need to tweaking settings for that which I am about to run (drives family crazy)

However there was but one question mark in that post Leon.

Give me one example of tweaking that I have not already proven that I know about that would make FP run better on my system and not make it look worse than I am willing to accept. You can't because you have no idea what I already know, for one, you don't know enough about my system, you don't know how much degradation of graphics I will accept, etc. I can get 24 frames per second with your table Leon, so I can make FP run better than alot of people with new computers. Better by far than the 3.6 P4 a fellow I work with just bought.

Tweaked settings my ass, anyway. you call turning off transparency 'tweaking', don't you? I don't, I call that degrading. Tweaking to me means making better, not just making faster. Why not turn off lighting? Good tweak, 6 fps when lights should be changing, yeah good 'tweak'.

I still say yes, FP underperforms Q4 and D3, tweaked or out of the box. On an nVidia too.

I've also seen it run on a 3 gig P4 with a great card and super specs. FP ran fine, Ok it ran super, smooth and high FPS. But no more. It took this system to have it run good and look good doing it. To do ramps and models and dmds etc. I just don't see it. I think it's taking almost everything people can give it to get it to run nice. No wasted time it can tap for all this stuff that is in the future. Also I see that scaling of the waffer is about as small as it is going to get. If computers grew at the rate they did from 450mh to 2.6 gh we would be talking about 1th (tera) by now.
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Old 04-07-2006, 08:34 AM
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Tweak something! Hopefully I will be getiing an ATI X1600 pro card soon so I can not be so underperforming. Right now I can't run FP worth a shit, so hopefully along with The Elder Scrolls 4 and whatnot, FP will run better...if not, that's the way it is!
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Old 04-09-2006, 12:01 PM
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I know for a fact that Shockman did not tell the truth above. His friend's system was just a 3.6 celeron.
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:05 AM
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Well I know for a fact that you are just an alt., Shocky.

Hey, don't anyone want to fight about FP any more? Does the ball roll into kicker holes more than 5% of the time yet?
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