Everything Pro-Pinball old is new again!

[ruby651]

Didn't want this story that Rock-ola posted in the News subforum to get lost in the shuffle... 'cause it's a pretty big deal for Pro-Pinball fans! Old tables remastered, new table from Pat Lawlor... a great time to be alive!

EXCLUSIVE: PAT LAWLOR AND JOHN YOUSSI TEAM UP WITH PRO PINBALL - Pinball Nirvana Forums

EXCLUSIVE: PAT LAWLOR AND JOHN YOUSSI TEAM UP WITH PRO PINBALL - Pinball Nirvana Forums

[Shockman]

This seems to be a team that can create a superior sequel.

[sleepy]

God Damn, we've been asking for this now for what, 16 years now.
I know the first time I played Timeshock! I was saying it aloud, Why can't they hook up with the mfgs for recreations.

I guess that slow boat to China finally found the iceberg dead ahead.

[sleepy]

I wonder if they're thinking about a Wizard, or developing their own?
Or making the series 'cab-friendly"?

[sleepy]

I wonder if...

[ruby651]

I thought it said something about making it cab-friendly in that news story. I could be wrong, though. As long as it's still PC-friendly... that's all that concerns me! It also looks like they may be shooting for other formats (consoles, pads etc.), making this a very intriguing step. Guess they got tired of Farsight and Zen getting all that attention riding on Pro-Pinball's coattails.

[Ike Savage]

good news, although what most people seem to miss is that the "pro-pinball" people never quite stopped making simulations- just that they turned to other venues, i.e. consoles. they wound up producing three more tables after the first four, IIRC.

also, they showed that they were able to improve their product. the greek-themed game they released a couple years ago was miles smoother and more effective than the likes of "timeshock," though more on the design-end than the physics end, admittedly. as close to classic 90's williams as anything else i've laid index fingers on...

[ruby651]

Uh... what the hell? They did a greek-themed table? Tell me more! Was it a PC game? An actual pinball simulation? I want! I was actually surprised to find that they did the Mario Ball series. I've never been a fan of "adventure pinball" games and can't say that the Mario game was all that great.
IIRC, Nic, you've been sort of a lone voice crying in the wilderness, saying that the Pro Pinball physics haven't really aged that well. After playing the ones reissued by GOG.com, I would have to agree... not that the tables still aren't fun, but they do tend to pale in comparison to recent releases, and even VP, in some respects. It'll be interesting to see what they can do with these new "remixes."

[Ike Savage]

hehe, bill... not sure that was me. the last thing i remember saying about PB physics is that the modern VP physics are amazingly stagnant considering all the theoretical upgrades undergone through the years. a big reason why i was so initially excited to rediscover the VP scene, then so quickly disappointed and underwhelmed by the lack of physics progress.

pro-pinball physics always struck me as being incredibly dynamic but also overtuned and oversensitive, particularly in the flipper area, which is of course the el dorado of PB simulation physics. my main deal is that a PB simulation will always be nothing but a simulation if you can't do the critical stuff, like drop catches, hot catches and so forth. just IMO, of course...



the greek table is called "pinball pulse: the ancients beckon." as silverball studios they also did another (apparently) very good table called "metroid prime pinball" after that weakish mario thing. unfortunately, seems those last two were only released for the nintendo DS series. amazing value, too, since the greek table only cost a couple bucks as a download from the nintendo store. it even has the legendary british actor brian blessed doing the voice of zeus! (same guy as emperor augustus from "i claudius" and king richard from blackadder). on the plus side, with the DS being emulated and all- no reason you can't test drive those two tables via PC emulators, no?

and wow, looks like these guys released just another table last year- "frogger pinball" for iphone. so that makes eight tables if i have my abacus calibrated correctly.

[sleepy]

If you like Facebook, you can play the Frogger game here:

http://www.facebook.com/froggerpinba...30317233716020

[ruby651]

Are you sure that wasn't you, Nic? In reference to Pro Pinball, I don't think your comments were negative, I just thought you had brought some of the fanboy love back down to earth.
Here's my theoretical thinking on VP physics, coming from a very simple layman (and I do mean "simple"). I think there's been a big change in the VP9 physics from the VP8 physics... now they're screwed up in a completely different way. I think there was improvement in some areas, and some drawback in others. For me, it seems like aiming doesn't work as well, at least as far as playing on a desktop PC. Mileage may vary on fancy-pants cabinet setups.
Ah, DS! No wonder I hadn't heard of the table. Damn, those graphics are pretty decent for a DS game!

[Shockman]

You should know I agree 100%. Physics that were taken as they were, and generally praised has been tampered with (with good intentions) and are as screwed up, screwed up in other ways, or down-right worse. Plungers, flippers, ball, have new issues. Nudge and basic slope are gone. Scatter angle, oblique correction, random range, can all be used to avoid certain issues, but none of these are physics models, and create issues.

Aiming was the killer, along with the loss of nudging.

On the bright side, there are people that have passion that are developing pinball simulations, while VP is committing suicide. VP was there when we needed it. Even the cab users are going to find better options. V.P., R.I.P.

I commented a few times about flaws in PP physics, mostly directly off the flipper (spin mostly, that sometimes made no sense, non dampening when expected)