Your top 20 MAME games

[Shockman]

The fact is that the arcade cabinet has a yoke, and a PC emulation usually don't. To say it's absolutely not playable is a contradiction, as you use a mouse.

The best controller is the controller that gives the user the most comfortable and useful control. Just as you use keyboard for joystick movement, many people use a mouse. they probably use a high resolution gaming mouse, if not just casual players.

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Amazon.com: Visiontek XG6 3D Gamer Mouse 3D High Resolution Laser Mouse: Electronics

[StevOz]

A separate button for reverse is needed, when fighting mutants a quick reverse-fire-thrust-reverse sequence must be mastered with the thrust variable in it's timing and placement in that sequence, this simply would not be possible using a joystick. The same or similar techniques are also used to most effectively fight other enemies such as swarmers and baiters.

[Shockman]

Why would it not be possible with a joystick?

I think it would be just as fast if not faster to have a 4 way stick and X for direction instead of a reverse button that require the use of the thumb.

[StevOz]

Additionally the reverse and thrust buttons must be used simultaneously on occasions. Also once mastered the reverse button is way faster to flick with the thumb. You actually never press that button it is a flick and way faster then any joystick movement.

I know as I did master Defender in my youth, most often ending my games with the maximum displayable score of 999 975, though I did on a few occasions go on to clock the score 3 times over for a score of 3 999 975 during which, you surpass wave 255 and reset the difficulty level to wave 1, although only up to wave 99 is displayed on screen, after which it displays wave 00 and so on.

There were actually some bootleg Defender games made which did use the 4-way joystick method and these were not very popular as any half way decent player would never play them more then once as they were basically unplayable.

Also the up/down joystick was very short/stubby the reason being is you didn't actually grasp it, you palm controlled or used just your 2 fingers nearest your thumb, having your thumb resting on or very near the reverse button for quick reverse manoeuvres.

[Itchigo]

Defender is one of those strange games that I can play falling down drunk and still beat people. I guess when you just get into a rhythm it stays with you.

[Shockman]

I know how it plays. like i said the controls can be mastered. But reading that any other control layout would make it unplayable, or even unbeatable for that matter is insane.

It's a stupidly simple game. the only reason it was ever labeled as hard was because the controls were not intuitive and took a lot of getting use to. That was the call when it first came out and nothing has changed. I suspect it was made that way for revenue as a good game is going to get repeat customers until it is beaten, then it's off to something new.

Even the two way stick for altitude and another top shooter stick would have made it so much easier that say scramble, because timing is nowhere near as relevant.

[StevOz]

I can't agree at all with your synopsis Shockman, the control panel layout was made exactly that way to suit the gameplay of Defender, nothing else would serve that purpose as well, Eugine Jarvis knew exactly what he was doing and it was all about gameplay.

[Shockman]

Gameplay is lining up with an enemy and shooting it. Being that this can be done at any distance, timing is not crucial.

The control scheme defines the gameplay not suits it. Some people just like logical control and a button smasher suits fighters well, but as you can probably gather, I don't like fighters.

For a game to suck me in it takes more than making it work with a controller. It has put me there. If it fails, it can not keep my interest. What I'm saying is that if I was to imagine myself in a space fighter ship, I would not imagine an array of buttons for flight control.

For Defender in Mame and the dual analog stick I use the left stick Up and down as intended. the stick is also a button so pressure on that reverses the ship. Left and right on that same stick apply thrust and button 1 fires. This in no way is unplayable, and works most logical for me. If there was a way to read the press and ignore the held, then reverse would be mapped to the left and right stick as well. For me it is not only logical, but realistic as I would imagine.

I am not arguing that your preferred method is no good, only what I have read by a couple here that any other control layout or devices make some of the mentioned games un-playable. It's an obvious contradiction as we are playing these games without the original controllers.

I have a flight yoke and peddles (CH flight yoke), Three wheel and peddles sets (MS sidewinder, Momo, and G25) A thrustmaster flight stick, X-arcade dual stick, X-arcade trackball, various joypads, and mice. I don't have spinner type wheel or knob, or light guns though. Proper control devices are important in many games but the exact layout is a personal issue.

[kristian]

It's not only about a game being "unplayable" or "playable". It's how these games have been designed to play... it's part of their classic gameplay experience.

You can also paint a Ferrari F1 car to British Racing Green and drive it... but it's not the same.

I'd like to see a person who plays 30 Million in Star Wars with the mouse... yes... it's playable but not as playable as it is with yoke. MAME action replay page has pathetic scores... best is 1.6 million.
http://replay.marpirc.net/

Yet, in games like Battlezone and Xevious you see very high scores... it's because their gameplay isn't compromised with an inferior controller. I actually play those games much better on keyboard... the 2-stick original BZ controller was much cooler... but the alternative controller is not a limiting factor.

PS: One thing.... I have never been able to play joystick "left handed"... you know... when the stick was controlled with a left hand and shoot/jump button(s) with right... that doesn't work for me... I simply can't play that way. That's why XBox joypad is completely unplayable for me.... and I'm 100% right handed... it's weird.

I bought 2-player X-arcade just because of that... it has the right joystick so I can program the shoot/jump buttons for my left hand.

Fortunately, Atari cabinets had it both ways... like Xevious.

[Shockman]

When running emulation, which is what we are talking about, as the real hardware has the original control, I disagree that it is about how the games were designed to play, as far as controllers is concerned. I think it is all about getting them to play with the hardware you have available.

I know the problems with using a mouse with Star Wars and pointed them out. Resolution only applies to mouse pointers and not gaming mice though.

A BRG Ferrari still has the same chance of winning the race as a red one does though.

I think it's just a little insulting to say that certain games are unplayable just because the highest possible score could not be reached without the original controller.

I hold the high score record on nothing, but the games I like, I'm sure I like as much as the high scorers.

I think it's the response that makes the emulation games playable or not. If you can set up what you have and use it to create the required input with the required feedback then the game is playable. A mouse for example is the best common device to replace a spinner, as wheels are limited in rotation and usually self centering. It's not the same, but it works if set correctly and used along with a pedal is even closer.

For the casual gamer, nostalgic interests, and specific games' fans, these games are mostly set up to use common devices like mice joystick/pad and keyboard.

For the serious gamer there are usually universal alternative devices, like the CH yoke, the Thrustmaster flight stick, gaming mice, as well as other brands an types.

For the purists, they need to collect arcade machines imo, For those between serious and purist, it's possible to attach most of this original control hardware to a PC.

[kristian]

Yes... there is no substitute for the real arcade machines... I was thinking about getting a MAME cab but I gave it a second thought and it wouldn't satisfy me anyway. Computer & X-Arcade stick is just as good.

I'd buy Star Wars, BattleZone, Gravitar and Tempest original cabinets in a heartbeat if they were available in Finland.... I bought a house recently and I have lots of space now.... the original controls is one reason but the vector display is the main one.... AAE is awesome but the real, genuine vector display simply can't be substituted.

You Americans are lucky.... you can still buy those machines in reasonable prices. I suspect that might not be the case 10 years from now... original arcade cabinets are definitely collectors' items in the future. Esp. the Atari ones.

PS: You can buy a Star Wars yoke for MAME. The price is quite greasy though....

http://www.westcontrols.com/files/pr...source=message

[Shockman]

I know what you mean about a MAME cabinet. How to set up the control panel. The cluttered ones that try to put it all on is ugly and confusing. Some are too limited as to the games that would make good use of it.

There is always a option like Doc's, but a lot of work, time, and expense. It is in my opinion the only way to go to have versatile cabinet though. http://www.beersmith.com/mame/

[kristian]

Hey... check this out... miniature Star Wars cabinet. Awesome...!!

Star Wars miniature Atari arcade machine! Replay Expo 2011 - YouTube